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Sessalisk from Wheeeeeeeee Since: Sep, 2011
#4601: Jan 1st 2012 at 8:23:55 PM

It's just a definition. Tropes Are Not Bad.

What you want to avoid is redundant use. It's not that you're not supposed to use them at all.

Alternatively, you could describe the actions that are happening without using adverbs or Said Bookisms. Sometimes the emotion or the tone is already apparent in the dialogue. For instance, someone says:

"You are a motherfucking bitch!"

It's pretty safe to assume it is being said it angrily. You don't have to write:

"You are a motherfucking bitch!" Bob said angrily.

Then again, if the tone is playful or friendly ("Motherfucking bitch" could be a term of endearment to Bob), for example, then a Said Bookism would be very appropriate and useful to show that the intent/meaning is contrary to the actual words.

"You are a motherfucking bitch!" greeted Bob, as he gave her a high five.

edited 1st Jan '12 8:36:52 PM by Sessalisk

Caaan anybody find me... Somebody to ♠
RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#4602: Jan 1st 2012 at 8:41:16 PM

'Greeted' isn't an intransitive verb...

edited 1st Jan '12 8:41:35 PM by RedSavant

It's been fun.
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#4603: Jan 1st 2012 at 9:28:47 PM

[up][up]While you're right about the middle ground being the best option, I just want to note that Said Bookism isn't defined as simply "using adverbs to modify 'said' or using other verbs in its place". This wiki's definition of it is "going out of your way to avoid using 'said' to the point that the writing becomes awkward".

But yeah, the stuff about not making the dialogue tags redundant is true. Although you can use them to enhance the emotion already inherent to the sentence.

"You motherfucking bitch!" Bob said angrily. = redundant

"You motherfucking bitch!" Bob roared. = not redundant, even though it expresses a similar sentiment.

edited 1st Jan '12 9:30:35 PM by JapaneseTeeth

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BornIn1142 from Estonia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#4604: Jan 2nd 2012 at 2:41:26 AM

He's the comic relief. The main character is the unicorn.

Not sure whether the antagonist (the one who accuses the unicorn of being a fraud) should be a doctor or a rich young business-pony.

Yeah, that's what I figured, but doesn't that take the wind out of the sails of this mystery? With the unicorn as the main character, it'll be clear from the start whether she's the real deal, won't it?

edited 2nd Jan '12 2:41:45 AM by BornIn1142

kegisak Element of Class Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Element of Class
#4605: Jan 2nd 2012 at 2:43:06 AM

Actually, with a bit of careful descriptions and leaving out just enough details, it's possible to keep it a mystery.

More likely, though, the tension comes from whether or not the mystery will be uncovered by the other characters.

As for the Said Bookism issue, I myself don't have a problem with it so long as you don't go overboard in finding words. So you know, no big long words that simply mean nervous, or something. But conversely, I also find that it can be effective to describe what the character is doing, and that can help get a bit of tone across. Like if you have a character who's pacing and chewing their fingers, then of course their voice is going to be nervous; it pretty much goes without saying at that point.

edited 2nd Jan '12 2:45:09 AM by kegisak

Birthright: an original web novel about Dragons, the Burdens of Leadership, and Mangoes.
Pannic Since: Jul, 2009
#4606: Jan 2nd 2012 at 9:38:24 AM

To elaborate, the fic is based off of a play and a movie that was loosely based off of the play. In the play it isn't ambiguous, in the movie it is. The movie still manages to keep it ambiguous even though the magician is the central character. It can still be ambiguous - it's just a matter of what you don't tell the audience.

Anyway, I'm having a bit of trouble with chapter 19 in The Book of Friendship. Not sure what to have happen. I'm thinking of having the main thread of the chapter be a looming pegasus attack, but I'm not sure what all I can put into it. Mainly, I'm thinking of having it be the part where Brother White goes back to the disc launcher and either smashes it with a hammer, which would be dramatically effective and show how he's cracking a bit, or dumping it off the dock, which is funnier. In any case, not sure.

I'm also considering having the opening scene take place the morning after the party. Tap wakes up with a hangover and finds the missionaries in her bed. Might be funny. But it might also be a bit much, and it might suffer from Unfortunate Implications.

edited 2nd Jan '12 3:48:41 PM by Pannic

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#4607: Jan 3rd 2012 at 12:50:24 AM

Well, 'a bit much' seems to be how the fic works so far, Pannic. =) I'd say go for it.

*sigh* There is an It Takes A Village-shaped hole in my heart.

It's been fun.
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#4608: Jan 3rd 2012 at 7:44:51 AM

Okay, last night got a long ways into the first chapter of my war story. Already got the next two chapters planned out. After the first chapter ends on a Wham Line, the scene will switch to Celestia arriving at the griffin capital and then when the situation is revealed there, the scene will switch back to Canterlot under siege.

CDRW Since: May, 2016
#4609: Jan 3rd 2012 at 8:17:42 AM

Fuck yes! ARTICLE 2 updated!

You want to know why I love ARTICLE 2? It's because it's Science Fiction. Real Science Fiction, not Star Wars, Not Star Trek, but the literature of the great What If that seems so hard to find these days amid the vast sea of wish fulfilment and technobabble that is Science Fantasy.

edited 3rd Jan '12 11:07:04 AM by CDRW

Pannic Since: Jul, 2009
#4610: Jan 3rd 2012 at 11:56:19 AM

Tap chewing out Buzz didn't seem to have come off as quite the Kick the Dog moment I intended. I wanted to show Tap being mean, but apparently general consensus is that Buzz is such a repugnant little fuckwad that he deserved it.

Basically, she corners him, pins him to the ground, chews him out, and accuses him of being closeted and having a crush on White. This causes him to run off without picking his present back up off the ground.

edited 3rd Jan '12 12:03:07 PM by Pannic

KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#4611: Jan 3rd 2012 at 1:26:49 PM

Pannic: Yea, I think it's kind of tough to have a Kick the Dog moment when a character isn't sympathetic. It's always interesting for me when the viewers/readers see or interpret something as different from what the author had in mind.

So the more I look at my idea, the more unsure I am of it. I probably won't work on it for a while (if I do indeed work on it), but I'd like some impressions so I can stew on it a bit. I'm a bit worried the second storyline I'll be running will seem a little random at the start.

Both stories have their root in branching off from canon when Twilight gets discorded. Discord figures out what Celestia's plan with the letters are and kidnaps Spike. However, Celestia has a back-up plan involving the postal service manually delivering. The first to answer the call is Ditzy Doo and it's with her that the letters go out. Unfortunately, she is still unable to deliver, the chaos in the skies above Ponyville causing her to crash.

Meanwhile, a discorded Applejack throws some particularly mean lies at Apple Bloom, causing her to run away. She comes across the injured Ditzy and convinces the mailmare to come to the CMC clubhouse where they have some first aid supplies. I'm not sure how much (if any) I'd write in between, but some time later, the CMC and Ditzy have become a sort of underground resistance, doing what little they can to oppose the chaos. It will eventually fall to them to reassemble the Elements. I'm thinking Apple Bloom and Sweetie will break their respective sisters' discordance. I'm kind of mulling over having Scoots do the same for Dashie, but I'm not sure.

After being discorded, Twilight returns to the library, just like in the episode. However, with Spike missing, she becomes convinced her friends have all abandoned her. For her, I'm almost assuredly going to time skip to where the CMC have already established their resistance group. During this time, Twilight will have fallen back into her old ways, although with a more jaded attitude. She studies tirelessly, looking for a way to gain enough power to match Discord in a full on magic duel. Research has led her to believe there are significant fonts of magic in Equestria that she could siphon extra power from. When she goes to one of these hot spots, she ends up getting pulled onto Earth.

My idea of how Earth fits into this is that it is actually Discord's domain. Humans are a chaotic "evolution" (for lack of a better term) of ponies who either followed Discord willingly or were kidnapped (not sure which, might be a combo of both). In any event, Celestia and Luna couldn't do anything about Earth because Discord is many times more powerful there and defeating Discord in Equestria closed the gateway. With Discord unpetrified, the gate is now open to beings of high enough magical prowess. Twilight ended up getting attracted to Earth by the nearly unlimited untapped magical energy there (since humans can't use magic, this makes her the only magic user with the entirety of the world's power available to her should she claim it). Anyway, she ends up in a brony's (gender currently undetermined) house/apartment/yard. The brony recognizes her immediately, but is unable to tell she is discorded. After a brief interaction, the brony is disappointed that Twilight is nothing like the version of herself from the show. They have an argument of some sort that ends in Twilight going outside and causing some problems. The brony eventually decides there must be something wrong and heads out to find her, bailing her out of trouble. They lay low for a while, but things don't blow over quickly enough for Twilight (I plan on having the media having caught wind of her and accusing Hasbro of some sort of genetic engineering publicity stunt >.>). Twilight decides she needs to get to Earth's magical hot spots and reluctantly decides to use the brony as a guide. I'm kind of thinking the brony will be the major POV character, but writing from discorded Twilight's perspective could also be highly amusing. Over time, the brony will get her to open up a little again, but ultimately, without her friends she remains discorded.

Anyway, not sure on the specifics of all the inbetween, but Discord eventually finds out that Twilight is in his backyard, stealing his power, so he returns to take her out. During this time, the other five Elements have been undiscorded and they, the CMC and Luna pursue Discord back to Earth. Cue epic battle.

And wow, that was a stupidly long wall of text. But that's basically my outline cut down to the bare bones explanation.

edited 3rd Jan '12 1:28:12 PM by KuroiTsubasaTenshi

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
DeathCloud Since: Apr, 2009
#4612: Jan 3rd 2012 at 2:57:38 PM

I posted that in wrong thread:

I have idea for pony fic what will be part of my Sci Fi Mega Crossover Fusion Fic -this one

Ponies (and other races from MLPFIM) are separate faction/space civilisation, characters from show are present in thi universe, but that not mean they appear in fic. I'm developing plot now, it will be war story, where ponies state will join one of sides of galactic conflic.

Anypony would be interested ?

RedSavant Since: Jan, 2001
#4613: Jan 3rd 2012 at 3:21:40 PM

Kuroi, that sounds like two feasible fic ideas mashed into one. The Earth subplot doesn't really sound necessary, and I was enjoying the summary up until that point.

It's been fun.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#4614: Jan 3rd 2012 at 4:10:27 PM

Hmm, really? I guess I could detach them, but then I have to figure out what to do with Twi.

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
CDRW Since: May, 2016
#4615: Jan 3rd 2012 at 4:35:35 PM

How do I know if a reviewer's queue is open or closed on ponychan?

Pannic Since: Jul, 2009
#4616: Jan 3rd 2012 at 4:38:19 PM

Check the reviewer's most recent post in the thread.

edited 3rd Jan '12 4:38:24 PM by Pannic

CDRW Since: May, 2016
PerpetualLurker Forever Scootaloo Since: Dec, 2011
Forever Scootaloo
#4618: Jan 3rd 2012 at 7:48:55 PM

Well, here's Chapter Three of my mediocre work. It's getting better, I think, though I'll have to submit the whole thing for some sort of comprehensive review at some point. I just have to work up the courage to do that in the first place. Also, It might be a good idea for people interested to go back and look at the end of the first two chapters. I've retroactively added a document-based hospital subplot that will feature at the end of each chapter, and the one at the end of this chapter will be confusing without having read the first two.

edited 3rd Jan '12 7:51:48 PM by PerpetualLurker

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#4619: Jan 3rd 2012 at 8:51:38 PM

The first chapter of my war fic is done! I'd appreciate once-overs, constructive criticism, anything.

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#4620: Jan 4th 2012 at 1:50:23 AM

  • pant pant* Sorry. Been busy. Anyway, I finished the last of what s probably going to be the first chapter of my Star Swirl fic. Now with a story title and chapter title (both of which are subject to change, but I'm thinking of doing an Idiosyncratic Episode Title thing).

Anyway, here's the whole thing so far.

My current idea for the summary is:

As a descendant of the greatest conjurer of the pre-classical era, Star Swirl wishes to live up to her namesake’s reputation and their shared cutie mark. But how can she emulate a powerful unicorn when she is an earth pony? Taking the advice of her psychologist, she heads off to Ponyville to try and find out.

Also unsure about tags. I can probably add [Comedy]. I don't think t ever gets sad enough to be sad (The first scene is pretty much going to be the darkest of the entire fic). I amused myself with trying to think of possible extra tags. Specifically:

SCIENCE!, Mild-angst, Self-discovery, fanfillying, explanations-of-dubious-canonicity.

Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. I'd like things checked over before I submit.

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#4621: Jan 4th 2012 at 7:20:09 AM

Anyone have anything on my fic?

CDRW Since: May, 2016
#4622: Jan 4th 2012 at 8:13:31 AM

YES! All the stories I care about have been updating in the last few days! cool Through The Eyes of Another Pony, I am gonna read you so hard you can't imagine.

[up] I can check out your chapter later this evening.

edited 4th Jan '12 8:14:00 AM by CDRW

KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#4624: Jan 4th 2012 at 10:47:37 AM

Lurker:

Ch1

  • bright shining sun <- bright, shining sun. Although you could probably get rid of "a bright" since it's redundant to have both that and shining.
  • same has his leg <- as his leg
  • mare in the group approaches the doctor <- tense shift. Should be 'approached.'
  • With Rainbow Dash out of the way, a white unicorn rushed to the side of Twilight’s bed. <- earlier in the paragraph seems to imply the group gathered around the bed once Dashie was out of the way. Mentioning that here again feels redundant.
  • in a horrified tone <- you could probably do without this. Rarity's dialogue makes it quite clear how she feels.
  • Twilight did look extremely haggard <- this is vague and more of a tell. The rest of the sentence shows, though, so maybe you could replace it with another similar piece of description.
  • is heard outside the room. <- tense shift again, should be 'was.'
  • in front of her <- don't think this is necessary as the rest of the sentence describes the image just fine. Plus it sounds awkward.
  • Twilight then explained...going into shock. <- this feels like a big info dump. Not only that, since I'm fairly certain you're talking about the mystery pony, this seems like an odd thing to gloss over with a quick dump like that.
  • dragged into this already <- 'already' feels awkward. You probably don't even need it.
  • (and Spike) <- don't need the brackets
  • Rarity (who still insisted on giving Twilight a facial before leaving) <- I'd suggest replacing the brackets with commas
  • on four hooves. <- unnecessary since we know he's a pony, walking already implies the use of 4 hooves
  • As he ran through his known facts again <- we already know he's running back over the facts, so this feels redundant.
  • He still needed to work on his volume control a bit. <- previous sentence already implies he's having volume control issues
  • memory memory loss <- duplicate word?

  • The ponies in the doodle...He smiled at the scene. <- this is a really colourful paragraph, with the verbs kind of giving it character of its own. This is a good example of well executed showing and I think you should keep this in mind for whenver you need to describe something important in your story.

Ch2

  • So long as their continued evaluations indicated he was stable, that is. <- this is inconsistent with the first chapter's psych evaluation. Unless the staff has a reason to lie to her, but it sounds like they were reluctant to let him go in the first place, so I don't see why they'd say something to hurt their own case.
  • Ponies bustled about every which way, all smiling while they shopped, chatted, and generally had a good time, the technicolor display of their various coats only adding to the air of liveliness the town had. <- this is kind of long winded to read. I suggest starting a new sentence with 'the technicolor.'
  • noticing the look of awe on his face <- you could probably safely cut 'the look of'
  • first top on the tour <- 'stop'
  • From what the doctors told him of how he ended up in Ponyville, he made quite a scene in a crowded classroom upon arrival. <- after the comma is a little awkward. Could use some restructuring.
  • covered with apple trees covered <- using covered twice in the same sentence is a bit distracting
  • Applejack begin to talk. <- 'began'
  • Sure enough, an old and shrivled looking mare <- 'looking' is probably unnecessary
  • balanced her one one hoof. <- 'on'
  • Thing had long since <- 'Things'
  • Apple Blooms voice <- 'Bloom's'

Ch3

  • “Well, here we are!” Twilight’s shout <- Not sure about this. Twi doesn't normally shout about anything, so this feels out of place.
  • full time one I <- 'once'
  • as to what the problem was <- awkward and probably unneeded. We already know something's up, so what they're confused about should be implied.
  • to move in <- redundant
  • scrambled to he feet <- 'his hooves'
  • handwritten <- hoofwritten?

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
CDRW Since: May, 2016
#4625: Jan 4th 2012 at 11:36:21 AM

So...the latest chapter of Through The Eyes of Another Pony is freaking awesome. And I thought that conversations couldn't get any more humiliating for Firewall. [lol]

Edit: Maybe I should try making my own review thread on ponychan. I think that I'm a better editor than writer and could probably help some people out.

edited 4th Jan '12 12:03:07 PM by CDRW


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