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Blissey1 insert title here from a random Pokècenter Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
insert title here
#30251: Dec 22nd 2013 at 6:42:12 PM

[up]*reads blog post*

...huh, I knew Chun Li was popular, but that popular?

and now her only competitor is Twilight Sparkle...

...wow, Twilight is close to being the single most numerous character in r34 porn of all time.

edited 22nd Dec '13 7:02:43 PM by Blissey1

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JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#30252: Dec 22nd 2013 at 7:33:21 PM

On that one site at least.

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MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#30253: Dec 23rd 2013 at 4:43:46 AM

Hi thread! It's been a while.

I'm back in the pony game after a short hiatus. I've read through most of my inflated Read Later and Updated Favourites lists. I've written about a thousand words of Arsenal of Harmony's fifteenth chapter. And I thought it would be neat to get back in touch with you guys.

First of all, massive props to CDRW on Princesses Don't Potty. I finally read it, and it's spectacularly well-written. Eagerly awaiting more!

I think someone in here recommended Unbound Skies. I really enjoyed it, so whoever recommended it, thank you!

And now for a recommendation of my own: everyone, go read The Life of Fear. I've rarely read any pony story so engaging and immersive. Plot, worldbuilding, atmosphere and especially characters: this fic gets everything right. It would be in my page favourites if only I could figure out whether to file it under "Big adventure" or "A beautiful heart, faithful and strong".

Then there's the Writing Guide. It's a bit of a dead project, but I intend to revive it. I'm going to see what more I can add to Chapter 2 (Conveying Information) and Chapter 5 (Style) soon. Clever, JT, and everyone else who is or wants to be on board with this, your input will be much appreciated, as always.

By the way, are there any Estee fans here? I had a pretty interesting discussion with him, which started with my remarks on what I saw as Anvilicious Black-and-White Morality in his stories, and moved to the subject of his take on Equestria in general, and its implications for the real world. It starts here; just scroll up for the rest.

Oh and Clever, your daily terrible plot bunnies can be pretty terrible, but I think I can out-terrible you:

An alien ship crashes in the palace gardens at Canterlot Castle. When Luna and Celestia go out to investigate, four alicorn stallions emerge, calling themselves Gold, Tinker, April and Acolyte. They claim to be princes from another world, who have ventured into space in search of new lands to ease the pressure on their overcrowded home planet.

Their story doesn't sound very credible, and their speech patterns are bombastic even for Luna's taste. But there is no denying that they are very, very handsome.

There was a creaking noise, and a bay door of sorts opened in the gleaming silver hull. As it came down, Luna winced at the blinding white light from inside.

Four dark silhouettes stood against the light. Pony-like forms, it seemed... with wings... and horns... Alicorns? Luna had expected all manner of bizarre alien creatures, but certainly not alicorns like herself and Celestia.

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERE WE ARE! BORN TO BE KINGS!

The figures in the doorway were still – but then where were those voices coming from?

Luna decided to ignore it for now. The light was gradually fading, giving her a better look at the unexpected visitors. She felt the heat in her cheeks rising in time with the dimming of the light.

She was supposed to say something profound now. To formally welcome these strange alicorns to Equestria, and ask about their homeland and the reason for their visit. Who knew how far they had travelled, and what wondrous tales they had to tell! This meeting could well be a milestone in Equestrian history.

But as she gazed upon the magnificent forms of the stallions before her, all her brain managed to convey to her mouth was: 'Dibs on the mustachioed one.'

Next to her, she heard the angry stomp of a hoof. 'Dammit!' Celestia hissed.

edited 23rd Dec '13 4:52:27 AM by MidnightRambler

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
CleverPun Bully in the Alley from California Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Bully in the Alley
#30254: Dec 23rd 2013 at 5:49:19 AM

In order; CDRW doesn't visit this thread anymore. They called me a blight on the community and said they couldn't put up with my poisonous negativity any longer (except in a nicer way), then declared they wouldn't be returning. They still post in the Live Reactions thread.

Wade Mon Mothra recommended Unbound Skies.

I'm still willing to assist with the Writing Guide, though you originally asked me for writing examples and not necessarily other advice. Like JT, I'm a bit wary of giving explicit, unfounded advice, but I'm certainly willing to contribute basic illustrations of techniques.

Your plot bunny sounds like it could be funny, but—as I've done so many times before—I would caution anyone who intends to write a Whole-Plot Reference based solely on references. Since you have already written a story based solely on references, I suppose you know better than most how alienating, confining, and weird they can end up. tongue

"The only way to truly waste an idea is to shove it where it doesn't belong."
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#30255: Dec 23rd 2013 at 5:57:47 AM

I intend to give the Writing Guide my full attention once I'm done with finals. I have a fair amount of bibliography on proper writing lying around, and this would be the chance to study and summarize it all, in a format that's easily available for future reference. So, yeah, I haven't given up yet.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#30256: Dec 23rd 2013 at 6:23:59 AM

I am a fan of Estee. I'd agree that he has the problem you mentioned (among others), though I don't think that that's the best description of the problem. In any event, it is a really cynical interpretation of the setting which can occasionally make me balk. I still enjoy his work, but often, it just feels "off" from Equestria.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#30257: Dec 23rd 2013 at 7:07:34 AM

@Midnight: yeah, I've been meaning to look at the guide a bit more, but I've just been stupid busy lately.

And now for a plot bunny of my own: A Unicorn-In-Equestria. But this isn't an MLP unicorn; this is a folklore unicorn. Head of a stag, elephant feet, tail of a boar, and a goat's beard, complete with extremely wild nature and affinity for virgins. It could be played either seriously or comically depending on how it reacts to the cast. Either way it would be an interesting comparison of the mythological unicorn with MLP's take on the idea.

edited 23rd Dec '13 7:14:35 AM by JapaneseTeeth

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Blissey1 insert title here from a random Pokècenter Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
insert title here
#30258: Dec 23rd 2013 at 7:08:33 AM

heya midnight, did you notice that Without A Hive now has a sequel?

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Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#30259: Dec 23rd 2013 at 7:29:15 AM

Original folklore unicorns were also carnivores.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#30260: Dec 23rd 2013 at 7:50:34 AM
Jimmmyman10 cannot into space from polan Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
cannot into space
#30261: Dec 23rd 2013 at 7:55:56 AM

Reminds me of the unicorn in Cabin In The Woods. Best scene.

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Jimmmyman10 cannot into space from polan Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
cannot into space
#30263: Dec 23rd 2013 at 8:06:15 AM

wat

I don't

wat

Go play Kentucky Route Zero. Now.
MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#30264: Dec 23rd 2013 at 8:10:14 AM

Your plot bunny sounds like it could be funny, but—as I've done so many times before—I would caution anyone who intends to write a Whole-Plot Reference based solely on references. Since you have already written a story based solely on references, I suppose you know better than most how alienating, confining, and weird they can end up. tongue

Alienating? Confining? Weird? Probably. But it worked beautifully.

Of the three stories I've published so far, Horse Latitudes is definitely the one I'm most satisfied with (if you adjust for wordcount and amount of effort). It's built on a gimmick, sure, but the gimmick works (hey – Ebert's Law!) I'd have a much harder time pointing out flaws in that story than in Arsenal of Harmony or – *shudder* – Treasures of the Everfree.

For this story, I'm planning to take the gimmick to the next level. Not only do our handsome alicorn princes speak only in Queen lyrics, each band member only uses lyrics from songs which he (co-)wrote. If I can pull off a conversation between six characters, four of whom have that limitation, I will truly be a master of ursine choreography.

Oh, and in case anyone was wondering, the thing I did with the names:

Gold comes before Mercury in the periodic table.
Tinker comes before Taylor in the nursery rhyme.
April comes before May in the year.
Acolyte comes before Deacon in the hierarchy of the Catholic Church (in ascending order).

I'm still willing to assist with the Writing Guide, though you originally asked me for writing examples and not necessarily other advice. Like JT, I'm a bit wary of giving explicit, unfounded advice, but I'm certainly willing to contribute basic illustrations of techniques.

I intend to give the Writing Guide my full attention once I'm done with finals. I have a fair amount of bibliography on proper writing lying around, and this would be the chance to study and summarize it all, in a format that's easily available for future reference. So, yeah, I haven't given up yet.

I've been meaning to look at the guide a bit more, but I've just been stupid busy lately.

Awesome to hear you guys are all still on board! grin

heya midnight, did you notice that Without A Hive now has a sequel?

As a matter of fact, I did. The first chapter definitely looks promising; can't wait to read more!

I am a fan of Estee. I'd agree that he has the problem you mentioned (among others), though I don't think that that's the best description of the problem. In any event, it is a really cynical interpretation of the setting which can occasionally make me balk. I still enjoy his work, but often, it just feels "off" from Equestria.

Very true. Would you say I'm onto something with the political implications of "increased contrast", or is that just my paranoid Socialist brain seeing oppression and injustice around every corner? tongue

CDRW doesn't visit this thread anymore. They called me a blight on the community and said they couldn't put up with my poisonous negativity any longer (except in a nicer way), then declared they wouldn't be returning. They still post in the Live Reactions thread.

Shit. If CDRW is gone, that means the thread has lost one of its most active and insightful contributors, and perhaps its best writer.

I backtracked a few pages to see what all the fuss was about, and it seemed like it came out of the sky pretty much. Well, he must have had his reasons.

In the end, I don't agree with him about you, Clever. Yes, you can be harsh and contrarian, but you're very often a great source of feedback because of that. When I saw your barrage of negative comments on The River, I was intimidated, and a little offended, at first – but I ended up agreeing with you on almost every count. If it hadn't been for you, the story would have gone up on Fimfiction in its original terrible form. (As it stands, I'm still working on making it better).

Ideally, a thread like this needs people who'll say, 'Great story, but you might want to work on X...' and people who'll say, 'Your story sucks because of X Y Z.' Every Rainbow Dash needs a Ms. Harshwhinny, in a way.

Sure, having Hype Backlash against the people here seems a little petty. I'm more of the opposite persuasion: if lots of people in this thread are talking about a fic, I'll probably give it a try. But I would hardly call you a 'never-ending fount of negativity and belittlement.'

edited 23rd Dec '13 8:12:12 AM by MidnightRambler

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#30265: Dec 23rd 2013 at 8:16:31 AM

I tend to not really care whether something is being talked about a lot, mainly because I know a lot you guys' personal preferences are very different than mine.

Also, the idea is definitely interesting, but you might have trouble with it given that Fimfiction put the kibosh on copyrighted song lyrics due to legal concerns.

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MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#30266: Dec 23rd 2013 at 8:43:48 AM

Also, the idea is definitely interesting, but you might have trouble with it given that Fimfiction put the kibosh on copyrighted song lyrics due to legal concerns.

Oh, yes, almost forgotten about that. Let's see... the site blog post does mention that

sprinkling multiple lines of a song between prose is, unfortunately, not okay.

On the other hand, Horse Latitudes is still up; I've never had so much as a warning about that. I think I'm getting away with it because each line stands on its own; there is never an entire verse from any single song being quoted (not even 'sprinkled between prose'). In that case this new idea (working title: Princesses of the Universe) would be a-okay too.

I'll ask Obselescence about it just to be safe.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
JakesBrain Since: Jul, 2010
#30267: Dec 23rd 2013 at 8:53:57 AM

[up]I've been meaning to ask him about that as well. I've only got one fic up and it uses lyric quotes as chapter titles... which, frankly, is something I've seen published authors get away with. Although about half of them credited the songwriters on the copyright page just to be safe.

edited 23rd Dec '13 10:39:36 AM by JakesBrain

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#30268: Dec 23rd 2013 at 8:54:11 AM

I think stuff that was already up when they made the rule is okay as a Grandfather Clause, but new stuff, not so much. I'm still going to attempt to write a story that's a big shout out to a music album though.

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Blissey1 insert title here from a random Pokècenter Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
insert title here
#30269: Dec 23rd 2013 at 9:14:05 AM

yeah, my human music fic originally had some lyrics in it, but I had to cut them out when I tried to submit it.

I think it turned out better that way though, so it's all good.

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MidnightRambler Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan! from Germania Inferior Since: Mar, 2011
Ich bin nicht schuld! 's ist Gottes Plan!
#30270: Dec 23rd 2013 at 10:26:58 AM

Blegh. I talked to Obselescence and he said it's all right. The catch is that my defence is plausible deniability: any single line from a song, appearing on its own as a line of dialogue, is something that could arise spontaneously in spoken English – and thus hard to claim copyright to.

This means I can't actually go and explain the gimmick in the author's notes. But where's the fun in setting myself a gimmick challenge if no-one will know about it? (Well, the talking in lyrics should be obvious, but the thing about "only songs that band member wrote" is an extra challenge I'd want to gloat about completing).

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#30271: Dec 23rd 2013 at 10:28:02 AM

Very true. Would you say I'm onto something with the political implications of "increased contrast", or is that just my paranoid Socialist brain seeing oppression and injustice around every corner? tongue

I have other problems with it. The implication that the characters we follow in the show just happen to be utter paragons in comparison to everyone else is effectively Sueifying them. But I don't really like implications that the protagonist is "different" anyway. One of my more personal reasons for disliking the idea of Twilicorn.

If I'm to be honest, I actually did get CDRW's points, even if I don't view them anywhere near as strongly. But you have to admit that saying, "Oh, I was going to check that out, but if you guys like it, then I'm no longer interested" is kind of insulting. And that's what I think truly set him off.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#30272: Dec 23rd 2013 at 10:34:15 AM

I can sort of see why that might be the case. For example, like I said earlier a lot of you have very different things that you like in stories that I don't care for. So if someone with tastes that are very different than mine goes on and on about how awesome a story is, there's a greater chance that it's not something that would appeal to me. I wouldn't disregard the story for solely that reason, but it would certainly be a factor.

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Blissey1 insert title here from a random Pokècenter Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I know
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#30273: Dec 23rd 2013 at 10:46:59 AM

But you have to admit that saying, "Oh, I was going to check that out, but if you guys like it, then I'm no longer interested" is kind of insulting. And that's what I think truly set him off.

yeah, that really was kinda uncalled for.

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Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#30274: Dec 23rd 2013 at 11:20:40 AM

Admittedly, I do get that, JT. There is a certain poster who's tastes are ... very different from mine. Yet, we end up liking similar works anyway, if by different amounts and for different reasons.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#30275: Dec 23rd 2013 at 12:17:31 PM

Like I said, I'd never write off a fic just because somebody else likes it. I know there are exceptions.

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