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CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#126: Jun 27th 2011 at 10:56:37 AM

"The change does not decrease the length of the text significantly. "

Only problem with this is things like removing natter or moving content to an appropriate subpage like YMMV would not be considered good edits.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#127: Jun 27th 2011 at 11:29:48 AM

For young accounts only.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#128: Jun 27th 2011 at 11:52:54 AM

True, but those are useful tasks that would be negatively impacted.

The chances of that happening in a serious way with new users are rather low though, so acceptable loss I take it?

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
AnonymousUser Since: Jan, 2001
#129: Jun 27th 2011 at 12:00:16 PM

@Central Avenue, last page

That would also help with password recovery.

eX 94. Grandmaster of Shark Since: Jan, 2001
94. Grandmaster of Shark
#130: Jun 27th 2011 at 12:02:37 PM

Wouldn't even a day be sufficient?

The reason we are hit by spammers is that it was rather easy to get an account, so even the smallest required effort, like waiting a day, or even a few hours, should keep them away.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#131: Jun 27th 2011 at 12:09:57 PM

It's not just spammers, but there are also legitimate concerns about people using new accounts to troll, vandalize, or even to just dick with stuff because they don't know what they're doing.

Further, we'd like some evidence that an account was created in earnest by making them actually make edits or post in the forums or something — this prevents them from creating a bunch of accounts and then simply letting them age until the newbie block expires.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#132: Jun 27th 2011 at 6:59:08 PM

My experience with Wikipedia says this rapidly becomes an arms race, but there is some benefit to having to make them do a little work.

We may also want to think about ways to make it easier for our users to watch what's going on — some proportion of contributors tend to want to help out in that way.

A brighter future for a darker age.
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#133: Jun 27th 2011 at 7:28:49 PM

Some people just make an account to remove spoiler tags, though.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#134: Jun 27th 2011 at 9:08:09 PM

[up] And that would be fine if that's what they wanted to do, as long as they don't make a mess of the pages along the way.

The point isn't to prevent spammers and vandals from getting on the wiki. That's impossible. What we do want to do is limit the damage they can do — preferably without unfairly hampering legitimate new tropers. Human supervision will always be required for this. But let's say we put a 5 edit per hour/10 per day restriction, and allow edits of no more than 5 lines. Much easier to undo 10 5-line edits than fifty or whatever.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#135: Jun 28th 2011 at 12:33:15 AM

Is there no way Fast Eddie could install a 'revert' button on edits made by new accounts?

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
Hydronix I'm an Irene! from TV Tropes Since: Apr, 2010
I'm an Irene!
#136: Jun 28th 2011 at 12:43:00 AM

[up] It's not hard to copypaste something and return what was said, though. I'm not sure it's really necessary, though.

Quest 64 thread
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#137: Jun 28th 2011 at 12:46:09 AM

It all depends on how many there are/how much it happened.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#138: Jun 28th 2011 at 12:49:25 AM

[up][up] We had a vandal a while back mess with pages in a way that made it incredibly difficult to revert edits without a revert button.

edited 28th Jun '11 12:49:35 AM by SpellBlade

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#139: Jun 28th 2011 at 1:00:54 AM

So in what way we talking large changes? Like what pops up in the recent edits tool?

If that is the case then merely creating a troper page, works page, or other similar page pops up as a large change.

Who watches the watchmen?
KylerThatch literary masochist Since: Jan, 2001
literary masochist
#140: Jun 28th 2011 at 2:18:12 AM

You know, as long as we're keeping recent edit histories, adding a method for mods to quickly revert an edit should be a doable thing. Like reverting to a previous version in Git (for lack of a more widely familiar example).

Or, for that matter, reverting your own edit, if you somehow made a mistake.

edited 28th Jun '11 2:19:08 AM by KylerThatch

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
Killomatic TURN OFF THAT LIGHT! from Loli Funtime Playhouse Since: Oct, 2010
TURN OFF THAT LIGHT!
#141: Jun 28th 2011 at 2:25:57 AM

Crowner options already have a revert button in their histories, so it can't be that difficult to add one for wiki articles.

edited 28th Jun '11 2:26:10 AM by Killomatic

Regulated fun - the best kind! I don't make the rules, just enforce them with an iron fist.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#142: Jun 28th 2011 at 6:31:59 AM

It's on the tech table. Eddie only has so much development time to give to the wiki. The real problem with a revert button is how to deal with edits made after the reverted one.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#143: Jun 28th 2011 at 9:20:32 AM

Ah, that is problematic...

Another problem would be stopping trolls from reverting valid changes.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
TheInferno |Y| = |X| Add 5 from probably on Earth Since: Jul, 2010
|Y| = |X| Add 5
#144: Jun 28th 2011 at 9:43:25 AM

Idea I just had: if we're restricting some kinds of edits by new accounts, what about a limit of multiple large changes per hour, like 10 or so? There wouldd probably have to be an article size minimum, so that people editing stub pages and troper pages wouldn't accidentally get caught and not be able to make any more large changes, but it'd be great for catching trolls that like to blank multiple pages.

"The fact that your food can be made into makeshift bombs alarms the Hell out of me, Scrye." - Charlatan
CyganAngel Away on the wind~ from Arcadia Since: Oct, 2010
Away on the wind~
#145: Jun 28th 2011 at 9:59:04 AM

I'd just like a warning to be sent to the mods, with a link to the change in question. Rather like the Holler system here, but automatically triggered any time a new account does something big.

There are too many toasters in my chimney!
KylerThatch literary masochist Since: Jan, 2001
literary masochist
#146: Jun 28th 2011 at 3:50:49 PM

@Fighteer:

I'm sure it's been suggested somewhere else that Fast Eddie get a couple of volunteers to help with all the coding, but I'm not going to dwell on that.

There's a reason I suggested it be primarily a mod feature.

Beyond that (as an additional option), a regular troper account could, at most, revert their own most recent edit(s), assuming nobody else has made another edit after that. That way, a potential vandal can't revert someone else's changes, and if they make their own edit to the page, a mod can easily revert that.

edited 28th Jun '11 3:51:30 PM by KylerThatch

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
FastEddie Since: Apr, 2004
#147: Jun 28th 2011 at 3:58:46 PM

We're starting to wander a bit here, but I think the reversion system that Wikimedia uses is pretty good in terms of the way it works for the end user.

The code and its implementation is a living nightmare, though. I'll just say "coded by committee" and you can let your imagination take it from there.

My contract to be in Wisconsin is winding down. I should be able to get a better solution in place for us fairly soon.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty
TheInferno |Y| = |X| Add 5 from probably on Earth Since: Jul, 2010
|Y| = |X| Add 5
#148: Jun 28th 2011 at 4:50:41 PM

"coded by committee"

Oh dear. That's one of those things that never ends well, like "Yeah, I'm in jail..." or "Don't worry, I know what I'm do-ooops."

"The fact that your food can be made into makeshift bombs alarms the Hell out of me, Scrye." - Charlatan
GameGuruGG Vampire Hunter from Castlevania (Before Recorded History)
Vampire Hunter
#149: Jul 16th 2011 at 12:50:10 AM

I agree with the email system over the one account per IP over others. Nearly every website I know of uses email to track posts. The one account per IP doesn't work because even ISPs uses ranges of IP Addresses and change them often for their paying customers. I know because I've seen the log of it happening on my own PC!

edited 16th Jul '11 12:51:35 AM by GameGuruGG

Wizard Needs Food Badly
lee4hmz 486-powered rotating frosted cherry Pop-Tart from A shipwreck in the tidal Potomac (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
486-powered rotating frosted cherry Pop-Tart
#150: Jul 16th 2011 at 1:03:34 AM

Eddie: Please don't tell me UML was involved. -shudders-

online since 1993 | huge retrocomputing and TV nerd | lee4hmz.info (under construction) | heapershangout.com

Total posts: 194
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