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LogoP Party Crasher from the Land of Deep Blue Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Party Crasher
#201: Jun 30th 2015 at 2:01:47 PM

Singapore?

edited 30th Jun '15 2:02:00 PM by LogoP

It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#202: Jun 30th 2015 at 2:23:47 PM

[up][up]

Nation =/= ethnicity, except in your personal dictionary.

[up][up][up]

Aye, foreigners live in terror of the SNP and Sinn Fein right enough. /s

Schild und Schwert der Partei
BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#203: Jun 30th 2015 at 3:23:10 PM

Nation does not equate ethnicity. But it does equate with culture.

In other words is not about just skin color but religion and language.

And then one has to realize that not all states are nations and not all nations are states.

Actually one can sum up American political discourse as a discussion about whether the U.S is a nation state, an empire, a multi-national state or just a modern state.

All of the prior characterizations are somewhat accurate and inaccurate at the same time. And all becomes really complicated because, no matter what type of political entity the U.S (or any other country) is, because all of this forms of political organization can give rise to "nationalistic" manifestations.

For example Iranian Shia followers of the Ayatollah, and Iranian atheist communist can be quite nationalistic... etc.

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#204: Jun 30th 2015 at 7:11:42 PM

Nation does not equate ethnicity. But it does equate with culture.

In other words is not about just skin color but religion and language.

In civic nationalism even that isn't necessary.

Switzerland defines itself as a civic nation (Willensnation, more accurately a nation of volition) and was formed from people with different languages and of different religious denominations back when it was still a big deal.

BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#205: Jun 30th 2015 at 7:14:41 PM

[up] that is why Switzerland, more than a nation state, is a confederation (or was); I would think. Maybe I am wrong.

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#206: Jun 30th 2015 at 7:25:15 PM

It isn't a confederation since 1848 but a federation. Much like the US or Germany or Russia. Confederation is just still the official title.

edited 30th Jun '15 7:25:46 PM by Antiteilchen

BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#207: Jun 30th 2015 at 7:33:37 PM

[up] IIRC they had a civil war didn't they?

What I wanted to point out is that, for a mayor part of it's history, switzerland was not a nation state in the formal sense of the word.

It might now be one (I am not a politologist so I do have some shaky understanding of this matter) but if it is, it is because centuries of coexistence brought about a general culture.

The same way that Athenas and Sparta were polar opposites back in the day, but now form a very distinct national unity.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#208: Jun 30th 2015 at 7:34:26 PM

Historically, nationalism, as a political movement, equates nation with ethnicity. Hence the term "nation-state". What I feel you guys are trying to do is sanitize a term that has been poisoned by association with a dangerous political movement that is currently growing in importance and popularity, esp. in Eastern Europe and Asia. The danger here is a semantic confusion that might hide extremists behind a cloak of respectability.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
BAFFU Since: Dec, 2012
#209: Jun 30th 2015 at 7:41:51 PM

[up] But there are some national groups that include ethnic minorities.

For example in Brazil there is no doubt about who is and isn't Brazilian.

And if Brazil (purely hypothetical example) pulled a Nazi Germany on South America motivated by nationalism, it would not necessarily be along ethnic lines.

EDIT:

Also the concept of nationality often times is fluid. Like the proverb says "I against my brother; I and my brother against my cousin; I and my brother and my cousin against the world".

edited 30th Jun '15 7:49:08 PM by BAFFU

Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#210: Jun 30th 2015 at 8:01:34 PM

@BAFFU: The Sonderbundskrieg, yeah. When the conservative cantons formed their own little alliance to resist a federal state and liberal attempts to curb the churches' power. With a casualty count of 150 dead and about 400 wounded I'm not sure it counts as a "proper war" though.

Historically, nationalism, as a political movement, equates nation with ethnicity.

Historically, nationalism, as a political movement, equates nation with ethnicity.
No it doesn't. It became a major political movement after the US and French revolutions. Both of which weren't based on ethnicity and are examples of state-nationalsim. Then it got a major surge in the 1848 revolutions. And Switzerlands nation of will was part of that. So right from the start there were other meanings and they were even more important for a time.

edited 30th Jun '15 8:01:58 PM by Antiteilchen

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