In Kings case, it's his "criticism" of Islam, that most people believed to be modern day Mc Carthyism.
edited 17th Jun '11 12:37:34 PM by Kino
Well, it pretty much is modern-day Mc Carthyism, but I don't think Mc Carthyism was that bad - there was a lot of communist sympathy at the time (there still is, look at all the pinko commie hippies on this forum), Mc Carthy was just mistaken in thinking it was a well-planned conspiracy and not just many people independantly reaching the same opinions.
If Peter King's electoral history
is to be trusted, he doesn't seem to be very harmed by the criticism against him.
Edit: apparently
, a fair amount of the people Mc Carthy accused of being soviet agents actually were soviet agents.
edited 17th Jun '11 12:54:47 PM by SlightlyEvilDoctor
Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.Hippies ≠ communists. I'm sorry, but that's the same kind of narrow thinking that made McCarthy so dangerous. I mean, George Orwell was a socialist, and look at the kind of things he wrote about communist and socialist states.
This is exactly what worries me about people like King. There's a risk of becoming overzealous yourself, which is what draws accusations of Islamophobia. And such behaviour does draw those accusations, even if they're not common enough to destroy his career.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff![]()
I dunno if I'd agree with that, but yeah, I wasn't aware King had suffered at all from it.
Like some of the other posters on the thread, I've only seen when you back anything remotely Islamic that you get into trouble.
EDIT -
![]()
Yeah, I'll believe that when a neutral source can confirm it.
edited 17th Jun '11 12:57:44 PM by FFShinra
Actually, yeah, backing anything Islamic is basically political suicide.
Look at some of the things people said about Salma Yaqoob. Although Respect are kind of a crappy party anyway, so it's not like she had a serious political reputation to commit figurative suicide with to begin with.
edited 17th Jun '11 1:04:16 PM by BobbyG
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff![]()
![]()
Yeah, I know hippies aren't communists, I was being facetious :) Still, you gotta admit there is a lot of sympathy in these parts for ideas that are pretty close to communism, and in a context when one's country is "at war" with a powerful communist nation, it's reasonable to be a bit worried about that.
"Pretty close" to communism is relative. America is pretty right wing as Western countries go; there are Americans who think Europe is entirely socialist, a suggestion which I believe most Europeans would find laughable.
The same could be applied to Islam. There are a huge number of possible stances other than "supporting (directly or otherwise) violent Muslim extremists" and "strongly anti-Islamic", but where you draw the line is going to depend on how you yourself regard Islam.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffHmm....
The problem I have with this video and, by extension, anti-Islam proponents is that they conflate religion with culture. Especially with regard to American Christians, it strikes me as hypocritical. Christianity has a great deal of staying power in the United States, and some more cynical types would go so far as to say that the US is secular in name only. But that's another argument all together.
The fears that Westerners have toward Islam, much like the fear Westerners have toward most anything foreign, is heavily rooted in a case of Did Not Do The Research. There are over 1.5 billion Muslims in the world and less than 20 percent of those Muslims are Arab (most are actually Asian). Secondly, people tend to forget that there are large numbers of Christians, Jews and people of many other religions in the Middle East and Central Asia. It's not just "durka durka" land. In fact, sectarian violence and ethnic rivalries are more severe than anti-Western sentiments. I don't have numbers on hand, but more Muslims have been killed in terrorist-related incidents since 9/11 than Americans, Christians, American Christians...you get the idea.
From what I've studied and discussed with people living in Muslim areas, the problem with violence, terrorism and despotism has more to do with cultural and personal shortcomings than anything written in the Qu'ran. When you live in a nation dominated by a tribalistic gerontocracy that enforces misogyny, flagrant nepotism and economic stagnation, the shit is going to hit the fan regardless of the religion. I can think of plenty of "Western" or non-Muslim nations that have issues similar to the ones I described, to varying degrees. It just strikes me as foolish to presume that the Middle East has a monopoly on being royally fucked up, especially for religious reasons. Radical Islam shouldn't be ignored as a problem, but it's not the sole problem at the moment.
One argument presented by some atheist and anti-religious types - an argument I'd admittedly flirt with - is that the removal of theocracies would curtail a great deal of the social problems we have today. Then again, I'm not anti-religious (albeit non-religious), I don't like the conclusions that argument proposes. It's an argument that, again, ignores basic faults in the human condition that go far beyond the belief in a god or some other supernatural doctrine.
edited 27th Nov '13 8:29:01 AM by Aprilla
An actual theocracy, ruled by an actual God that actually spoke with Its people, would likely not be too bad. At least, if the God is anything like most people like to think God is.
The problem is that as far as we can tell no such God exists, and so all theocracies on the planet are in fact dictatorships++.
What, like a council composed of the priests of various gods? Could be interesting.
Anyway, I think anyone who thinks Islam is the only religion that can produce the kind of extremism associated with various Middle-Eastern countries should take a look at Uganda (a Christian country) some time. Or for that matter, historical countries, such as the USSR under Stalin, which wasn't even religious.
edited 17th Jun '11 3:41:15 PM by BobbyG
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffWhat does the geographic location of Uganda have to do with anything?
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffOh, sorry, I was unclear. I'm saying that it's similarly extreme, not that it's in the Middle East. I'm talking about politics, not geography.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffSeen a million like him before, will see a million like him more.
Islamaphobia is in fact, a real thing. It's being afraid of Muslims and Islam, which the most vocal critics of it tend to be, in some form or another.
Is that a justifiable fear? I'd say no, unless you live in a country run by an extremist regime. In which case, god help you either way.
People who think some sort of Islamic takeover in the western world is a viable threat on the other hand, are just paranoid.
edited 17th Jun '11 3:47:33 PM by SpainSun
I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....You can blame Islam for it in the same way you can blame Christianity for the Crusades, as one of a lot of factors that made people turn towards this kind of thinking.
I don't think it's the primary one, certainly. Being under the thumb of various imperial powers (and I am not just talking about The UK, The US, etc.) for such a long period of time will do that to a people.
I spread my wings and I learn how to fly....@Kino:
- public criticism of Islam is political suicide
- the Koran actually sections that pertain to peace
- the word islamaphobia being used to "shame" people or to silence them
- you're not a racist if you object to somebody's religion or want one set of laws for your country
The first bullet isn't true- even King didn't commit "political suicide", he simply emphasized a set of priorities that many of his constituents don't agree with, thus he may lose some support. That's just politics.
Not sure what the second bullet is referring to. The Koran contains sections that pertain to peace?
If someone really is Islamaphobic, in some objectively definable sense, then perhaps they deserve to be shamed, depending upon how you define "Islamaphobia". I think most definitions would include the implication that one's fear of Islam is unreasoning (thus a "phobia").. so yeah.
No, you wouldn't be a "racist", in the sense that racism is about race, but depending upon what one's objections are, one could still be a bigot. Saying, on the one hand, that adherents of Islam appear to be more prone to violent acts than members of other religions is not itself bigoted, provided that one is open to factual arguments that may undermine the hypothesis. Being close-minded to refutational arguments, on the other hand, marks one as prejudiced.
I am unaware that anyone is seriously proposing two sets of laws for the US, or that such a thing is even practical given our Federal system.
edited 18th Jun '11 6:40:12 PM by DeMarquis
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.

Well, it depends how much of a threat you think Islam actually is. Kino isn't actually factually wrong here, if Islam is taken to be particularly dangerous, moreso than other, similar religions.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff