What?: Deconstructor Fleet

Doesn't explain the differences between this and Deconstruction well enough + the examples are very similar to the examples of Deconstruction. I say kill it with fire and use the name as redirect to Deconstruction

There should be a rule explaining how something is being deconstructed by the "Deconstructor Fleet." Don't just assume the reader knows.

You're allowed to strip out any X Just X examples.

The description could use a rewrite. I can see how it could come across as Deconstruction But More So.

I say kill it with fire. Deconstruction Fleet, in theory is supposed to be about a work that deconstructs enough tropes that it somehow provides a "unique style."

What it really is praising deconstructions you like even if they weren't really deconstructions or that unique because your show is awesome and everyone must be reminded of it as many times as possible.

Original YKTTW (only five responses, but no objections).

Near as I can tell, from the perspective of Deconstructor Fleet, it is supposed to be a work that deconstructs tropes as a matter of habit, where a Deconstruction is one of only one trope or genre (and may not be endemic to a work).

So, perhaps, Kingdom Come is a deconstruction of a single trope, the '90s Anti-Hero, while Watchmen is a deconstruction of many superhero tropes, and thus a fleet.

It's basically Deconstruction-riffic.

The question is whether this distinction uses Deconstruction correctly, or whether it should be absorbed.

Actually, it may be better described as Playing With-riffic; subversion is mentioned in the original YKTTW. If that is the case, the name may be a problem.

Okay, that's the intent. However, in practice, how is this anything except The Same But More?

That's the problem: This IS just another The Same But More-gushfest (frankly, I'm amazed this page still exists).

Besides, "Deconstruction" itself is frequently misused as "Played Straight (or Played With or whatever), but I like the show too much to admit it"... Just look at Neon Genesis Evangelion and Mass Effect. I like both franchises, I really do - but I don't think they deconstructed every single trope they used; that isn't even possible.

In short, "deconstructed" is the new "subverted" - and this page encourages the misuse.

People are using it correctly—to mean a work has lots of tropes that are deconstructed or subverted. Mass Effect is a good example of that. I don't recall any deconstructions, but it has quite a few subversions.

The question is whether that is an actual worthwhile trope.

I fully support lumping the tropes. Nothing in the description for Deconstruction implies a limit to how wide ranging a work's deconstruction is; Deconstructor Fleet can easily be merged. For that matter, I think several of the Deconstruction tropes could be merged and cleaned up.

Now here's something that is interesting, Deconstruction is a seperate page from Deconstructed Trope and then we have Deconstructor Fleet.

Now I can see a degree of purpose to Deconstructor Fleet versus the other two because there is a difference between a trope and a genre; between a one-time deconstruction and a series-long deconstruction.

The thing with Deconstruction and Deconstructed Trope is that they cover basically the same idea, and I think that those two pages should be merged and examples erased as they are basically a Playing with a Trope concept. The ideas are so broad that you can apply "deconstructed" to any trope, so the page should describe what is meant by the term and leave it at that.

I think I understand what Deconstructor Fleet is supposed to be — a show that is about deconstructing everything it can lay hands on, usually with a Deconstructive Parody (like Excel Saga and Abenobashi Magical Shopping Arcade). As opposed to regular Deconstruction, which is about mocking a particular thing.

Trouble is, the examples list overlaps so much that I don't see any distinction whatsoever right now, and I'm inclined to nuke it.

Full disclosure: I'm the one who created the original entry for Deconstruction, way back before YKTTW existed, and I'm actually surprised by how little Trope Decay it's suffered. There is a bit of a problem with "your favorite show here," but even the Square Peg Round Trope examples are all attempting to say that their trope fits the definition we use.

I'm still iffy on Deconstructor Fleet, but Deconstruction and Deconstructed Trope should definitely be merged. Just add a note on Deconstruction that outside the wiki, the term is used almost exclusively for works that deconstruct an entire genre, rather than trope by trope like we do here.

I'm inclined to keep Deconstructed Trope — the reason it was created was that the main Deconstruction page was getting too stuffed with examples, and it was nice to have one-off entries and whole-genre entries get their own page.

Deconstructed Trope: A deconstruction of a single trope.

Deconstruction: A deconstruction of an entire genre (or possibly an entire work dedicated to deconstructing a single trope). The word for the attitude behind the other deconstruction tropes.

Deconstructor Fleet: A deconstruction of many genres or many semi-unrelated tropes.

As I see it, anyway.

I was asked to hook a single prop crowner asking only "Cut Deconstructor Fleet or not". It appears that there are more options being discussed here than simply cutting, so I will not be hooking that crowner.

A page action crowner listing all of the options that are being discussed would be far more appropriate.

It's looking like:

• Do nothing, everything's fine (It doesn't look like anyone agree with it, but we should always have that option)
• Redefine the three tropes based on Morgan Wick's assessment. Deconstructed Trope is about a solitary trope, Deconstruction is a long-form deconstruction and Deconstructor Fleet is a large number of tropes in the same series/story.
• (My idea) Merge Deconstructed Trope and Deconstruction as a single, exampleless Playing with a Trope entry, redefine Deconstructor Fleet as being a story/series that spends all it's time deconstructing something.
• Cut Deconstructor Fleet, figure out what to do with the other two later.

Looking at the options that KJ Mackley mentioned, I make this page action crowner. Feel free to add and edit options as you wish.

Since the poll already had a lot of votes, and KJ Mackley had suggested a very good idea for the Deconstruction pages, I took the initiative and did a mass edit for the pages: use KJ Mackley's suggestion but instead make the Deconstruction page an index for the subtropes.

edited 8th Jul '11 1:10:04 PM by totlmstr

Huh? That option is not even on Top - and A LOT of examples now have nowhere to go! and no, Deconstruction is NOT simply playing with a trope - it is a very specific application of a trope, which is not covered by anything else! And the distinction is clear: - Deconstructed Trope is for works that only deconstruct particular tropes; - Deconstructed genre is when a big number of tropes found in a genre is deconstructed - Deconstructor fleet is when more than one genre is deconstructed - Deconstruction itself should be left as index, and the examples moved to other pages But first we need to revert

edited 21st Jul '11 2:15:02 PM by SS13

That's... completely wrong. That was not the leading option at all. Frankly, that's borderline vandalism.

Edit: I've just reported totlmstr on Ask The Tropers, so we'll see what the mods say on the subject.

edited 21st Jul '11 2:14:42 PM by nrjxll

I vote to revert.

<Mod Hat ON>

Revert it, please. No vote necessary. Please leave an edit reason linking back to this thread.

<Mod Hat OFF>

I think I got Deconstruction back to its original self but, I think something happened involving Genre Deconstruction. I'm going to go and check on that now...

Thanks for reverting.

Genre Deconstruction got additional examples as people tried to salvage some examples from now reverted pages. It most likely should be reverted too.

edited 21st Jul '11 2:50:48 PM by SS13

You say salvage, I read "moving all the examples from the Deconstruction page whether they fit or not". Literally. That is in the edit summary.

edited 21st Jul '11 2:51:29 PM by MangaManiac