The trope is definitely about younger man attracted to older women (not the relationship itself, which is May–December Romance of course).
"Younger" and "older" are of course subjective and change as characters age, but a good indication is when its brought up in-universe...
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.43
: "There are a lot of cultural differences in addition to the age difference"
Which are? Clearly at least two person isn't seeing them. Either there's no major difference and they can be merged, or there is a difference, and the Christmas Cake page is terribly written. Add to that the fact that the Literature, Film, TV, Music, Webcomics, Real Life and Wrestling categoris can only manage two Japanese examples between them.
If there are these alleged Japan-specific nuances, go and rewrite the page to show them.
edited 31st Aug '11 2:12:35 AM by AndrewGPaul
Fair enough. I don't see that reflected in the page, that's all. Needs the non-Japanese examples moving, too.
Having said that, what you've just said really boils down to adding your post at the end of the Old Maid description, to me.
edit: Sorry, somewhere along the line I've got confused - I'm talking about the Christmas Cake page, not theCakeEater page. Oops.
edited 31st Aug '11 5:36:26 AM by AndrewGPaul
Why is Cake Eater so gender-specific? I have no suggestions for a rename, but surely until that is done there should be room for, say, homosexual relationships with a similar age dynamic.
Bump. Page Action crowner created and hooked.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffCake Eater is gender-specific because a young woman pursuing an older man or a young gay man who is primarily interested in older men tend to be treated very differently, due to the societal assumption that older women aren't sexually attractive.
I agree, this should stick to older women and the younger men/women who want them. If we do stick with the Christmas Cake term (to which I have no objection) we should make sure that example characters are at LEAST 25 or older to qualify. A 14-year-old teen boy who wants a 20-year-old woman has nothing to do with Christmas Cakes or Cake Eaters.
That sad, I'm thinking that if we're finding examples that don't fit the Old Maid at 25 rule there may be some merit in making a sister trope for MILF lovers, Cougar hunters, what have you. I can't remember any real examples from media, but there is a trend for older women to be trying to look like 25-year-olds and they have their niche admirers in the 20-something male crowd.
EDITED IN: But yeah, it's definitely very different from a young boy wanting to date a woman who's significantly older than him but younger than 25.
edited 27th Oct '11 10:45:41 AM by HiddenFacedMatt
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon StewartI strongly disagree with the idea of merging Christmas Cake and Cake Eater. Christmas Cake is the female character who is perceived as too old to be marriageable. Cake Eater is the person (usually a young man) who pursues the older woman. Many works have a Christmas Cake that don't have a Cake Eater.
Trying to merge them would be about the same as merging "Stray Dog" and "Dogcatcher"
edited 27th Oct '11 10:46:40 AM by Madrugada
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That's why it's a japan-only trope. That's not really how it is in the US. You're not really an 'old maid' until you're over thirty in the west and even then there's still some wiggle room.
The crowner has been up for two hours. We can wait a little longer.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.Fair enough. I know I've made that mistake more than once. Sorry, nrjxll.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.Seems to be pretty solidly in favour of a rename now, though.
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart@Noir Grimoir: Yes the age at which the trope might kick in the West is different, but the underlying dynamic still exists and is used in Western works.
"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.@ post 61.
It can be gender inverted but it takes a lot of work to come off the right way and not come off like a Gold Digger or other things as discussed earlier in the thread (I have only seen 1 example of it treated this way.)
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!True, but still, I feel there's a lot less stigma about the matter in the west. I would question the need for two different pages, but I feel an Old Maid is almost always depicted as quite old and unattractive (later thirties at least), whereas the Christmas Cake is almost obscenely young and attractive (right on the dot at twenty five) to be considered 'past her prime'. They tend to have different story lines because of this.
SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)I suggest this: We have a Cake Eater trope for the Japanese examples of "young mn going after a women that is older than 25" (it being hard to extrapolate a taste unless explicitly stated by the character) and only those examples, since they're so damn common, especially in porn, and we keep the name because the trope is meaningless without knowing about Cake Eater first. And then we add a Cougar Lover trope for basically every other example that involves adult women.
As for when this involves kids... Unequal age romances involving kids should be a different trope entirely, because the societal pressures, the contexts, the obstacles, what it says about the characters involved... everything is completely different. I remember when I was 14 and was dating a girl a year younger and I got so much flack for that, you wouldn't believe it. Boys dating (or befriending) younger girls are assumed to be losers, girls dating (or befriending) younger boys are treated like there's something wrong with them.
edited 29th Oct '11 7:58:54 AM by PacificState
A case of true love has the same redeeming power as a case of genuine curiosity: they are the same.Agreed, but I think we might already have the latter trope. May–December Romance probably covers it.
Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.May–December Romance is about the situation. Cake Eater is a character trope. And a Cake Eater can pursue without ever succeeding.
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?

Anyways back on the topic of renaming this one, I support it the title is too specific for the trope as well as not all Christmas Cake would fit as a target of this trope.
(I am not sure if there are enough examples that are young guys wanting to marry specifically Christmas Cake for a subtrope split so just a full rename.)
edited 20th Jul '11 2:40:06 PM by Raso
Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!