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Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

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First thing's first: KEEP. THIS. SHIT. CIVIL. If you can't talk about race without resorting to childish insults and rude generalizations or getting angry at people who don't see it your way, leave the thread.

With that said, I bring you to what can hopefully be the general thread about race.

First, a few starter questions.

  • How, if at all, do you feel your race affects your everyday life?
  • Do you believe that white people (or whatever the majority race in your area is) receive privileges simply because of the color of their skin. How much?
    • Do you believe minorities are discriminated against for the same reason? How much?
  • Do you believe that assimilation of cultures is better than people trying to keep their own?
  • Affirmative Action. Yea, Nay? Why or why not?

Also, a personal question from me.

  • Why (in my experience, not trying to generalize) do white people often try to insist that they aren't white? I can't count the number of times I've heard "I'm not white, I'm 1/4th English, 1/4th German, 1/4th Scandinavian 1/8th Cherokee, and 1/8th Russian," as though 4 of 5 of those things aren't considered "white" by the masses. Is it because you have pride for your ancestry, or an attempt to try and differentiate yourself from all those "other" white people? Or something else altogether?

edited 30th May '11 9:16:04 PM by Wulf

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10401: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:19:03 PM

Political satire?

He could have also said "YOUTUBE VIDEO PRANK EXPERIMENT" and gotten away with it, apparently

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#10402: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:23:10 PM

Frankly, after having seen the kind of extremes some hipsters can go to for the sake of doing something ironically (I TOLD YOU ABOUT STAIRS, BRO!), I can understand how the defense may have instilled just enough doubt that it might have felt like reasonable doubt.

"It still counts as a crime even if you didn't mean any of it" would set a terrible precedent for actual satire.

But still.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10403: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:28:11 PM

Satire is supposed to be risky and inflamatory for the sake of humor, perhaps even criminal. Like showing up completely blitzed during prohibition era to like, church or congress.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#10404: Feb 24th 2016 at 1:31:43 PM

You mean like showing up high as a kite on a literal trunkload of illicit substances to a federal Anti-Drug convention?

edited 24th Feb '16 1:32:16 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#10405: Feb 26th 2016 at 9:22:31 AM

White Supremacists putting out pro-Trump robocalls

A white supremacist super PAC is rolling out a fresh robocall campaign this week in Vermont and Minnesota telling voters, “Don’t vote for a Cuban. Vote for Donald Trump.”

In a recording of the robocall sent to TPM, American National Super PAC founder William Daniel Johnson calls on white Americans to brush aside their fears of being branded as racist and stop the “gradual genocide against the white race” by electing Trump.

“The white race is dying out in America and Europe because we are afraid to be called ‘racist,’” Johnson says in the recording, which will be pushed out Wednesday in Vermont and Thursday in Minnesota. Voters in both states will head to the polls on Super Tuesday to vote in the Republican presidential primary.

...

The American National Super PAC makes this call to support Donald Trump. I am William Johnson, a farmer and white nationalist.

The white race is dying out in America and Europe because we are afraid to be called “racist.” This is our mindset: It’s okay that our government destroys our children’s future, but don’t call me racist. I am afraid to be called racist. It’s okay to give away our country through immigration, but don’t call me racist. It’s okay that few schools anymorehave beautiful white children as the majority, but don’t call me racist. Gradual genocide against the white race is okay, but don’t call me racist. I am afraid to be called racist. Donald Trump is not a racist, but Donald Trump is not afraid.

Don’t vote for a Cuban. Vote for Donald Trump. (213) 718-3908. This call is not authorized by Donald Trump.

... wow. Just... wow. (Cross posted from US Politics.)

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#10406: Feb 26th 2016 at 10:34:55 AM

Actually, it would be nice if Racists came out proudly and card-carryingly. Yes. Stand up and name yourselves, so that we may engage you straightforwardly.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#10407: Feb 26th 2016 at 10:52:46 AM

The social cost are too high for them to engage in such a manner.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#10408: Feb 26th 2016 at 10:59:42 AM

Not everywhere, seeing as some people still fly a slaver flag openly in the US.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#10409: Feb 26th 2016 at 11:45:29 AM

When you are brazillian descendant with mixed heritage, I'd give it a pass. In the US it's a rather interesting a case of resentment politics.

edited 26th Feb '16 11:47:07 AM by vandro

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10410: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:08:22 PM

I am pretty sure the people who fly the flag dont d it out of resentment. Just ignorance and unquestioned tradition.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#10411: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:10:23 PM

No it is resentment. That's why it flew when the 101st escorted those kids to school.

That's why it flew when Obama was elected, that's why it flies now.

American racism is based very much in deliberate malice, not ignorance or tradition.

Oh really when?
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10412: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:14:44 PM

I believe it is still ignorance.

Ignorance perpetrated from grandma and grandpa that was not defeated because of poor access to education and still effective if unofficial segregation. What methods do people who are poor and culturally uneducated have to learn about other races other than the stringent stereotypes they perpetrate themselves, and wihout the ability to question it, then they are genuinely offended by any perceived affront to their beliefs.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#10413: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:16:14 PM

Their ignorance is deliberate. Racism goes hand in hand with anti intellectualism. They can't be educated because they make the deliberate decision to refuse education.

I live with these people, the options for education and multiculturalism and integration are there and they deliberately seek and destroy them.

You're giving them entirely too much credit. They know exactly what they're doing.

They are a malevolent and proactive force in the America, they're not people sitting in isolation and ignorance.

edited 26th Feb '16 12:19:01 PM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10414: Feb 26th 2016 at 12:17:19 PM

I dunno. I blame the government as much as the people for allowing stuff like home schooling. Education is a right and an obligation.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#10415: Feb 26th 2016 at 1:19:03 PM

Why must it be one or the other? Ignorance breeds resentment.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#10416: Mar 7th 2016 at 8:50:42 PM

for some reason this vid is getting a lot of hate on youtube and I don;t understand why. Some people in the... ugh... comments, are saying this woman, being a sociologist and not a medical physician, doesnt know what she's talking about. Anyways, I figured this was the best place to share it

hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#10417: Mar 7th 2016 at 9:28:47 PM

One of the comments:

Lots of assumptions and emotional arguments. Some points might be worth looking into, but her underlying reason for adressing this is more problematic than she realises. What is the point of demonstrating that "we are all the same"? Individuals are different and that is a good thing. Differences between groups doesn't mean that one group is better than another. What is important when it comes to group differences, is to understand that there are exceptions - everyone is first and foremost an individual, not an instance of a group. Thus, arguing against such trivial differences as genes affecting risks of developing diseases seems like a really bad strategy. What if ethnicity completely determines your risk of getting a disease, does that mean that we all need to become racists and that one group is superior to another? We need to treat people like individuals instead of members of different groups. Then, when group membership is relevant, it does not have to be degrading in any way.

Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#10418: Mar 7th 2016 at 10:03:31 PM

She wasn't argung against genes affecting risks of diseases, she was pointing out the the ethnic groups we subdivide people into are arbitrary and don't properly reflect the reality of the human genome, as she made perfectly clear at the begining of the video

Imca (Veteran)
#10419: Mar 7th 2016 at 10:05:56 PM

[up][up] That comment hits the nail on the head, ethnic groups do have differences between them.... I can tell you this first hand considering how fucking tiny I am compared to most of the Americans here, when back home I was pretty average sized, or the fact that our military reduced powder load by 20% compared to NATO standard because the recoil was too much....

What is more important is to relies exceptions exist, and that no one group is inherently better then one another, then to try and argue ethnicity should not be accounted for.

Actually, broadening the ethnicity questions might be better going by what she was saying in the opening, accounting for mixed backgrounds, and more specific backgrounds would allow for more accuracy then just broad groups.

[up] Thats a fault of the categories being too broad and making assumptionsnote  though, rather then there existence themselves.

edited 7th Mar '16 10:08:31 PM by Imca

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#10420: Mar 8th 2016 at 2:18:14 AM

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10421: Mar 8th 2016 at 7:03:46 AM

[up][up] The differences are pretty obvious here. Biological differences do not relate to mental differences or behavioral ones.

In the vein of this, I suggest reading Guns, Germs and Steel, by Jared Diamond, as it is a book that delves deeply into this subject specifically. I have not seen that video (I am at work as I type this) but essentially, yes, saying "we are all the same" is a statement that does not refer to the biological bits, but in the behavioral, emotional, and intellectual levels, and conflating them is just missing the point entirely.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Imca (Veteran)
#10422: Mar 8th 2016 at 11:09:04 AM

[up] The video was claiming that we were all the same biologically, which is where I take issue, well more accurately it claimed that ethnicity has no correlation at all to biological differences, which I still take issue with.

However I fully agree biological differences do not relate to mental differences or behavioral ones, and I also know for a fact that exceptions to the bell curves exist.

edited 8th Mar '16 11:11:08 AM by Imca

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10423: Mar 8th 2016 at 11:53:10 AM

Yes, but again it is the implicit subject that we are dealing with social, cultural and intellectual differences. The sickle cell disease being located in a region of the world, or people who came from that region of the world, and several other biological studies more than suffice to point the obvious: That there are inherent biological differences in our bodies that, depending on race, can make us more or less propense to certain phenotypes or genotypes.

But the frame of the discussionis the sociocultural and behavioral one and as a matter of fact, short of medical examinations and a few other examples (Llike the NATO one you mentioned), we really are the same.

Trying to take the conversation out of its sociocultural context into a biological, strictly medical one, is sorta deraling it with a choosy nitpick that ultimately gives no useful information on the subject

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#10424: Mar 8th 2016 at 9:00:41 PM

I understand the point she(the presenter) is making, but saying the point is more sociological than strictly clinical feels weird, when she is dealing with specifically medicine.

hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#10425: Mar 8th 2016 at 9:13:36 PM

I think her intended message is how doctors think of patients based on the latter's race.


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