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Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

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First thing's first: KEEP. THIS. SHIT. CIVIL. If you can't talk about race without resorting to childish insults and rude generalizations or getting angry at people who don't see it your way, leave the thread.

With that said, I bring you to what can hopefully be the general thread about race.

First, a few starter questions.

  • How, if at all, do you feel your race affects your everyday life?
  • Do you believe that white people (or whatever the majority race in your area is) receive privileges simply because of the color of their skin. How much?
    • Do you believe minorities are discriminated against for the same reason? How much?
  • Do you believe that assimilation of cultures is better than people trying to keep their own?
  • Affirmative Action. Yea, Nay? Why or why not?

Also, a personal question from me.

  • Why (in my experience, not trying to generalize) do white people often try to insist that they aren't white? I can't count the number of times I've heard "I'm not white, I'm 1/4th English, 1/4th German, 1/4th Scandinavian 1/8th Cherokee, and 1/8th Russian," as though 4 of 5 of those things aren't considered "white" by the masses. Is it because you have pride for your ancestry, or an attempt to try and differentiate yourself from all those "other" white people? Or something else altogether?

edited 30th May '11 9:16:04 PM by Wulf

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#10301: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:01:01 AM

I doubt that most people flying this flag aren't perfectly aware of what it stands for. "MUH HERITAGE!" is just a cop-out.
You'd be surprised. There are plenty of people who see the Confederate flag as the symbol of a South and not as a symbol of racism. I'm not saying that they're right, just that they're blind to the cultural associations they don't want to see, rather than using the flag as a sort of secret handshake to publicly display support for racism without admitting that that's what they're doing.

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:01:22 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#10302: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:01:36 AM

[up][up][up][up]Except that there was no federally mandated censorship of the flag on the roof of the General Lee; the television networks airing reruns ceased them by themselves and toymakers decided to omit the flag on scale replicas as well.

Providing such an education will be an uphill battle seeing as the state education boards in the South are willing to fight tooth and nail to prevent anything that may clash with their worldview entering a public school textbook.

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:01:48 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10303: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:04:30 AM

[up][up][up]Well, what matters is that they know, and they know that millions of other people know, and thus they know that those antiquated ideals of the old South aren't going to be revived in popularity anytime soon.

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:06:05 AM by nervmeister

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10304: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:07:52 AM

I hardly think that "what million others know" is the message they are getting when the slow mo car shines the flag on them while it flies over a ditch escaping from the criminals with the rallying cries of "YEEEEEEHAWWWWWWW!"

This followed by half skin half denim daisy dukes wearing girl sitting her ass on the car next to the flag

Is this educational

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10305: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:13:36 AM

[up]But where's the episode where they take the time to preach and pine for the days when a person could legally own another person?

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:14:21 AM by nervmeister

MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#10306: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:13:54 AM

Jovian's right here. For some it's malice but for others it's ignorance/misinformation combined with year's being raised with it so that when they're challenged with the possibility that what they know and love might have even a hint of terrible connotations and history one would be liable to cling harder or lash out.

This is basically the challenge of Hanlon's Razor in life.

The Blog The Art
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10307: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:20:44 AM

[up][up]When does the KKK do that nowadays? Or Trump? Heck even the Islamic State needs to dress up their propaganda as "healthy life" and "religious life" and others without outright saying "I want you in chains working for me because of the color of your skin"

Things are often a lot more subtle than that. The irons are easier to hide when they are not clapped on the neck and ankles of "the coloreds" but when they are made of lack of opportunities, injustice in financial and judicial systems and systematic repression of these.

It is far subtler than being segregated to the back of the bus, and to follow the same example of the dukes of hazzard, it is loud in what they do not say and what they do not confront, while taking oh so much for granted.

If you are expecting racists to be easily identifiable by the big funny white hoods they wear you may find there are not as many racist people as you would think. But racism is not a scooby doo mystery where Vilma loses her glasses and secretly stumbles into the KKK robes compartment, while Shaggy and Scooby stumble into the monster and pin him down with stray pages of the constitution that Fred jumbled together with tape into a magnificent racist-trap. I honestly have no idea what the fuck Daphne did.

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:27:39 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10308: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:27:30 AM

[up]Looking too obsessively for commies/racists/heretics/"insert-social-boogeyman-here" tends to lead to more problems than it solves, if history's anything to go by.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10309: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:29:33 AM

How does promoting education in enviroments where we can assure the education will be of the necessary quality turn into an accusation of witch hunting?

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#10310: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:37:54 AM

If you wan to see ignorance behind an Icon, look at all those Che Guevara wannabes who worship a man who was essentially a anti-intellectual murderous homophobic racist rapist who thanks to a hefty amount of propaganda managed to be an icon of resistance and liberty.

Same thing with the Confederate Flags, there are people who genuinely believe they are icons of resistance and heritage but it is an icon filled with a shitload of racism and discrimination behind it.

Personally I'd be against a federally mandated ban of the flag because of all the unfortunate implications it would create regarding government censorship, what is acceptable to censor and what is not and create another thing for the bigots to latch on and make them look likenote  victims of governmental oppression.

If anything the disuse of the Confederate flag should be an society's pressure as in the people will no longer want to be associated or have to deal with the symbol thus leaving it outside they public sphere and leaving it just for the clear cut bigots, not a governmental pressure to censor what people don't like.

Inter arma enim silent leges
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10311: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:44:50 AM

[up][up]Well if the education you're referring to goes something along the lines of:

"Everything is racist, everything is sexist and you have to point it all out!"

...Then there might be an issue down the road.

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:49:54 AM by nervmeister

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#10312: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:46:57 AM

[up]So making a concerted effort to suppress education regarding whatever unconscious biases we may possess in the hope that keeping them out of sight will keep things calm is a better idea than educating people about the manners in which they can be manifested and what can be done to overcome them?

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:47:28 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10313: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:49:23 AM

Well if the education you're referring to goes something along the lines of: "Everything is racist, everything is sexist and you have to point it all out!" ...Then there might be an issue down the road.

That is not a hyperbole that is literally me. I live in an actual plastic bubble to shield myself from mysoginistic dust mites and sexist oxygen, and I live purely on a diet of organic gluten free fat free sugar free celery that was sung to every morning by a finnish child choir and given a mournful ceremony with religious rites when it was cut.

I also work as a volunteer at the local refugee for children with mild discomfort where the huggle and cuddle therapy works wonders and I ride to work on a unicorn that poops actual ozone layer into the gaping holes left there.

That will teach me for criticizing something about the dukes of hazzard

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:50:12 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10314: Feb 2nd 2016 at 8:51:40 AM

[up]And you are more than free to criticize. Make no mistake. I hardly begrudge you for it. In fact, I rather enjoy engaging my mind by talking with you guys.

[up][up]That's fine. Free marketplace of ideas after all. I never demanded that anything should be suppressed so far.

edited 2nd Feb '16 8:55:53 AM by nervmeister

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#10315: Feb 2nd 2016 at 9:03:42 AM

I mean, there is a good deal of racism and sexism everywhere, but we become desensitized to it that even the most minute of pointing outs is met with rebuking.

When you have systematic structures built on prejudice, of COURSE it's going to show up everywhere, and where you least expect it. That doesn't make it inaccurate, it just means it has many forms and variations.

Read my stories!
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10316: Feb 2nd 2016 at 9:11:35 AM

[up]Well, what would be a good, say, "yardstick" to determine if these biases (unconscious or otherwise) here and there are significant enough to cause lasting problems for those on the receiving end?

edited 2nd Feb '16 9:12:36 AM by nervmeister

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#10317: Feb 2nd 2016 at 9:57:39 AM

That depends, what's the topic of the conversation? Say we're talking about a yarn club, and how to make a yarn club better. The issues of a yarn club is suddenly a lot more important than if you're, say, talking about clubs as a whole, and further out, organizations as a whole, and further our from that, society as a whole.

Of course only focusing on the biggest problems of the pond isn't always a good thing either, as it can mean that short term problems are ignored while long term problems take the attention, thus meaning short term problems become long term.

Read my stories!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#10318: Feb 2nd 2016 at 10:03:22 AM

[up]X7 So we don't have the education be that way. Instead it can be "flying the flag of a nation founded to protect slavery is racist, as is naming your car after a famous slaver".

And yeah Confederate stuff does tend to fall in with Che Guvara stuff and Guy Fawkes stuff, it's siding with an underdog because they lost, even though the world is a much better place due to them loosing.

edited 2nd Feb '16 10:03:38 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10319: Feb 2nd 2016 at 10:26:08 AM

[up][up]That kind of brings me back to the "Maximum Mexican" controversy that went down at Clemson University.

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#10320: Feb 2nd 2016 at 10:48:34 AM

Yeesh. That is a tad insensitive. Most colleges I know just call it by the food they're using, such as "taco tuesday"

Read my stories!
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#10322: Feb 2nd 2016 at 11:10:45 AM

Two people complaining on Twitter is hardly controversy. By that logic is my girlfriend and I both object to something and use the same hashtag it's a controversy.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#10323: Feb 2nd 2016 at 11:46:54 AM

...

*hides Guevara poster*

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10324: Feb 2nd 2016 at 11:48:37 AM

Initiate #GuevaraGate

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#10325: Feb 2nd 2016 at 11:57:38 AM

Que verga, no vale la pena.

But yeah, communist godfather does that to you!


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