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Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

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First thing's first: KEEP. THIS. SHIT. CIVIL. If you can't talk about race without resorting to childish insults and rude generalizations or getting angry at people who don't see it your way, leave the thread.

With that said, I bring you to what can hopefully be the general thread about race.

First, a few starter questions.

  • How, if at all, do you feel your race affects your everyday life?
  • Do you believe that white people (or whatever the majority race in your area is) receive privileges simply because of the color of their skin. How much?
    • Do you believe minorities are discriminated against for the same reason? How much?
  • Do you believe that assimilation of cultures is better than people trying to keep their own?
  • Affirmative Action. Yea, Nay? Why or why not?

Also, a personal question from me.

  • Why (in my experience, not trying to generalize) do white people often try to insist that they aren't white? I can't count the number of times I've heard "I'm not white, I'm 1/4th English, 1/4th German, 1/4th Scandinavian 1/8th Cherokee, and 1/8th Russian," as though 4 of 5 of those things aren't considered "white" by the masses. Is it because you have pride for your ancestry, or an attempt to try and differentiate yourself from all those "other" white people? Or something else altogether?

edited 30th May '11 9:16:04 PM by Wulf

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10276: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:58:11 AM

Things have meaning, and just cause you like it without the meaning does not mean that meaning just goes away. Intent isn't everything.

Swastikas too!

edited 2nd Feb '16 6:59:14 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Pwener Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy from Unknown... seriously, send help. Since: Jan, 2016 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy
#10277: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:58:38 AM

Anybody else disturbed by the fact that Ku Klux Klan groups are tolerared even with a black president? Just me?

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#10278: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:00:26 AM

Out of curiosity: What prevents lawmakers from banning Confederate symbols outside of art/education like we did with the Swastika and other symbols associated with Nazism?

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#10279: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:00:34 AM

[up][up],[up]But actually going after them would be crushing centuries of fine Southern heritage! And muh freeze peach!

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:01:03 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10280: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:01:02 AM

[up][up][up][up]Funny you should mention that. I was getting ready to bring up Lemmy Kilmister and the fact that his passion for collecting Nazi memorabilia didn't exactly get him tarred and feathered in the court of public opinion.

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:01:42 AM by nervmeister

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#10281: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:01:21 AM

Not disturbed. But saddened. One person in power does not change a society.


Who the hell is lemmy.

—googles—

Who the hell is lemmy.

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:02:30 AM by MrAHR

Read my stories!
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#10282: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:02:22 AM

Was he openly displaying those things in public? Collecting Nazi memorabilia and keeping it locked up in a room in your house is a lot different from flying a Confederate Flag on your front lawn.

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10283: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:02:58 AM

Anybody else disturbed by the fact that Ku Klux Klan groups are tolerared even with a black president? Just me?

Are they even relevant anymore? I think they are just relegated to being basically internet trolls by how worthless they are. I mean, seriously. If I saw a cross burning somewhere public I would take a selfie with it out of how rare such a sight would be.

Complete with duck face and "V" sign.

Funny you should mention that. I was getting ready to bring up Lemmy Kilmister and the fact that his passion for collecting Nazi memorabilia didn't exactly get him tarred and feathered in the court of public opinion.

There is a distinct difference between saying "I understand and study the meaning and intent of what I am collecting. I do not dismiss the history and meanings, evil and whatnot behind them, but I differentiate myself politically with them by demonstrating an academic knowledge of this" and "OMG WATS WRONG W THIS FLAG I LIEK IT WOTS WRONG W IT OMG UR MEANIES #BULLIES #WHATISHISTORYLOL"

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:09:00 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#10284: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:05:03 AM

Aszur: I think they still are, just far more in the background, and not bringing attention to themselves.

Read my stories!
Pwener Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy from Unknown... seriously, send help. Since: Jan, 2016 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy
#10285: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:06:07 AM

Yeah the United States is being undermined from the inside out thanks to "free speech" of all things. Goes to show that something that was good centuries ago isn't necessarily now. Take "the right to bear arms" as another example. School shootings? I wonder why...

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:07:33 AM by Pwener

Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#10286: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:10:30 AM

[up][up][up][up]Well, there was one photo shoot. The man has gone on the record that it's because that he thinks that Evil Is Cool. He didn't declare support for Nazi ideology, didn't perform a Nazi salute in public, didn't do half of the shit that your average Confederate-battle-flag-everywhere "Southern heritage lover" does.

[up]It's less them ceasing to be good ideas and more them being interpreted in a manner that benefits today's reactionaries. Free speech is pretty far removed from dumping every slur your mind can invent on someone you disagree slightly with politically. The right to bear arms does not mean you can run everywhere with a non-drop safe gun shoved down the front of your pants with a round in a chamber, and then claim that it was an accident when you inevitably drop it and it discharges.

[down]Metal/Rock 'n roll has had troubles with neo-Nazi leanings for a long time. This just happened a couple of days ago. The only people who actually throw hissy fits outside the community itself aren't the so-called enemies of free speech but overbearing fundamentalist preachers and "family organisations".

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:28:54 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10287: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:11:08 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]True. But it was still pretty well known among the public. And we both know how heated people can get over that sort of iconography, especially in today's era of outrage. So, in a way, it's kind of a phenomenon that Lemmy somehow didn't get stadiums full of shit flung his way over that. [nja]

EDIT: Then again it probably does help that as far as people as known him, his attitudes didn't remotely line up with those represented by those symbols.

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:16:15 AM by nervmeister

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10288: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:11:50 AM

Same reason why you can show the nazi stuff in museums in Germany but not anywhere else.

A museum is a place to study and teach, a place to investigate and a place to consider history

Your facebook profile is not

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#10289: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:28:51 AM

Out of curiosity: What prevents lawmakers from banning Confederate symbols outside of art/education like we did with the Swastika and other symbols associated with Nazism?
The first amendment. Without a constitutional amendment (which would never pass), any attempt to pass such a law would be shot down on constitutional grounds.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10290: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:33:17 AM

[up][up]Well, it's true there are some symbols that even to this day cant realistically be interpreted as representing anything other than an racially motivated mindset if flown around in public spaces (eg. the swastika). You'd have to ridiculously naive or in denial to think so. But the Confederate Flag nowadays seems like of those big "maybes" where you cant determine there's some kind of racial agenda without looking at the individual who puts it up. I mean, can you safely say that the Duke Brothers were "racist filth" solely because their car, which they rode out in public all the time, had old Dixie plastered on it?

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:37:21 AM by nervmeister

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10291: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:39:04 AM

I mean, can you safely say that the Duke Brothers were "racist filth" solely because their car, which they rode out in public all the time, had old Dixie plastered on it?

Racist? No. But that label is not the only issue around this.

One can, with ease, argue that they were promoting ignorance of a subject that needs anything but ignorance, by glorifying a symbol so often related to a horrible subject. In neither case do they end up good, regardless of intentions.

I am not saying they promoted said ignorance on purpose. Simply that they were but another cog in the machine, without them probably even realizing it.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#10292: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:42:05 AM

[up][up]The Confederate flag everywhere then had a racial agenda alright - the whitewashing of the Confederacy and an attempt to reverse any gains made in the process of Reconstruction. The General Lee is merely a symptom, a symbol of the normalisation of Confederate iconography whose elimination frankly has done nothing to solve the problem.

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:42:53 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Pwener Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy from Unknown... seriously, send help. Since: Jan, 2016 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy
#10293: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:44:39 AM

You all now that the swastika was merely adopted by the Nazi party and that it means many different things to many different cultures... right?

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10294: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:46:34 AM

You all now that the swastika was merely adopted by the Nazi party and that it means many different things to many different cultures... right?

So did severed moorish heads but History Marches On

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#10295: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:48:06 AM

[up][up]I also happen to know that the Nazi swastika happens to be drastically different in appearance from just about every other swastika used by other civilizations, religions and organizations.

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:48:26 AM by Krieger22

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Pwener Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy from Unknown... seriously, send help. Since: Jan, 2016 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Rogue Galaxy is the best (not) Final Fantasy
#10296: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:48:34 AM

Just checking.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#10297: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:50:25 AM

[up][up][up][up] Yes. But you can recognise the Nazi version on the basis of its design, especially in the case of the NSDAP's party flag. Nobody asked that the St Andrew's Cross be banned on basis of it being used in the Confederate flag, but that the flag itself should be banned.

I mean, doesn't flying the Confederate flag effectively mean that you support treason?

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:50:38 AM by DrunkenNordmann

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10298: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:52:46 AM

The Confederate flag everywhere then had a racial agenda alright - the whitewashing of the Confederacy and an attempt to reverse any gains made in the process of Reconstruction. The General Lee is merely a symptom, a symbol of the normalisation of Confederate iconography whose elimination frankly has done nothing to solve the problem.
Then educate; don't ban. Spread the 411 on how the flag was once the rallying cry of backwards-minded human traffickers who ultimately lost.

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:56:25 AM by nervmeister

Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#10299: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:54:10 AM

I mean, doesn't flying the Confederate flag effectively mean that you support treason?

Not if you word it differently. Bcuz muh freedom of speech is what allows me to say "I am not saying we need to separate just that you need to send me on my way with billions of dollars in reparations and beneficial trade deals to make up for the fact i am separating from you and if you don't then I am going to shoot you or goad you into shooting me so I become a martyr and start a bloody civil war"

Then educate; don't ban.

I can agree with this. But being a volatile dangerous subject, can we agree that there are places where we can educate about this, and places were we should not be educating about this?

For example places where we cannot be educating people about this would be common TV shows and Facebook profiles

And places where we can be educating people would be museums and schools?

edited 2nd Feb '16 7:56:09 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#10300: Feb 2nd 2016 at 7:57:11 AM

[up][up] I doubt that most people flying this flag aren't perfectly aware of what it stands for. "MUH HERITAGE!" is just a cop-out.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history

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