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Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

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First thing's first: KEEP. THIS. SHIT. CIVIL. If you can't talk about race without resorting to childish insults and rude generalizations or getting angry at people who don't see it your way, leave the thread.

With that said, I bring you to what can hopefully be the general thread about race.

First, a few starter questions.

  • How, if at all, do you feel your race affects your everyday life?
  • Do you believe that white people (or whatever the majority race in your area is) receive privileges simply because of the color of their skin. How much?
    • Do you believe minorities are discriminated against for the same reason? How much?
  • Do you believe that assimilation of cultures is better than people trying to keep their own?
  • Affirmative Action. Yea, Nay? Why or why not?

Also, a personal question from me.

  • Why (in my experience, not trying to generalize) do white people often try to insist that they aren't white? I can't count the number of times I've heard "I'm not white, I'm 1/4th English, 1/4th German, 1/4th Scandinavian 1/8th Cherokee, and 1/8th Russian," as though 4 of 5 of those things aren't considered "white" by the masses. Is it because you have pride for your ancestry, or an attempt to try and differentiate yourself from all those "other" white people? Or something else altogether?

edited 30th May '11 9:16:04 PM by Wulf

nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10251: Jan 29th 2016 at 10:59:16 AM

[up][up]Agreed. Once one settles into a certain routine or lifestyle, it can be a bitch to break free of it in order to reach for something better.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#10252: Jan 29th 2016 at 11:01:15 AM

That's actually a trope I tried to launch: the Sincere Sermoning Sinner. Well, not exactly, but there's huge overlap; the difference relies on whether or not you're admit to yourself that you have a problem.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#10253: Jan 29th 2016 at 11:12:21 AM

Since when did admitting privilege mean admitting fault? I fully admit to being privileged in a variety of areas compared to other groups, but I didn't cause my privilege to happy and I carry no guilt for it, it's not something I am at fault for. It's something I need to be aware of and keep in mind, but it's not something that I'm going to feel bad or guilty or at fault for.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#10254: Jan 29th 2016 at 11:42:15 AM

It's not your fault, it's the fault of the other white uneducated people. Silly rabbit.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#10255: Jan 29th 2016 at 12:05:01 PM

Hey I'll have you know I'm a very well educated white person, I attended a private school and everything. tongue

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#10256: Jan 29th 2016 at 1:59:48 PM

That is such a sad thing to say, equating private schools with good education. Back in France, for instance, public schools, and especially public universities, are the best. Private education is for dropouts, losers, idiots, and slackers who need to buy a future instead of meriting it.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#10257: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:05:17 PM

[up] That's because private schools have more money. Often a lot more money and are also older than public schools (not "Public Schools", which are private schools).

Keep Rolling On
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#10258: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:14:29 PM

Actually my private school didn't give me a particularly good academic education, it gave me a great social one, but that's because it's an alternative kind of education with a different social philosophy.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#10259: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:22:43 PM

[up][up]Again, that is false in France. The oldest, most powerful schools were founded by the Bourbons and by Napoleon Bonaparte. In both cases, they made a point of making the nobility compete in contests of wit and fashion while all the real administration and management was done by the sovereign's made men.

These were people without birthright and often without personal fortune, whom the king could appoint, promote, demote, kick upstairs, downstairs, or sideways to their leisure. People who got the job done and then left when asked to. Technocrats and bureaucrats.

The result was a centralized country with all the power concentrated in the Head of State, his mandarins, and the bourgeois elites. The privileged regional noblemen becoming useless and obsolete, despite all their birthrights and all their lands.

So, to reiterate, the Palace, be it Royal, Imperial, or Presidential, was very good at concentrating power, and prestigious private education kind of undermines that, so it's definitely not encouraged.

edited 29th Jan '16 2:24:33 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#10260: Jan 29th 2016 at 2:42:11 PM

I studied at private schools all my life, and I can tell you, I am better prepared than my peers. But it is a third world fact. My french circuits professor homeschooled her children with a community of her fellow expatriates precisely because of her steem for public french education, they passed some tests by the Liceo(dunno the english word).

Here the best college is the state-run UTP(Technology University of Panama), an engineering school. Private universities are characterized as pay-to-graduate.

Victin Since: Dec, 2011
#10261: Jan 29th 2016 at 3:04:24 PM

I studied in one of the few good Brazilian middle and high schools of Brazil. It was founded by one of our emperors and is still under the federal government management instead of the state or municipal. Brazilian public colleges are better than private ones, though, as far as I'm concerned.

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#10262: Jan 29th 2016 at 3:18:38 PM

I did the middle school in a public school, which I really really really hated, and the high school in a private one, currently on my senior year in a federal engineering college.

As a rule of thumb in Brazil, the public schools just plain suck and fail hard at teaching while the private ones are decent but at college level the situation is usually reversed. There are quite good private colleges and some notoriously horrible federal colleges but what is considered the best are still the federal ones, I should note this scenario is reversing at college level due to bureaucracy and outdated teaching methods combined with diminishing funding.

Anyway, usually whoever attended to the private schools during the basic formation years has a higher chance of entering a public school while those who attended the public ones end up in private schools at their parents expense. A paradox on itself being "fixed" by racial and public schools graduates quotas, while it is making colleges slightly more diverse it isn't doing wonders either, since a good share of the freshmen attending the college ends up dropping it because they can't either afford living in another city or are failing their first year subjects because they lack the basics, if not both. The Brazilian government's attempt to fix both racial and poverty education issues is forcing the colleges doing in 4 years what the public schools should have done in 12.

Inter arma enim silent leges
IFwanderer use political terms to describe, not insult from Earth Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
use political terms to describe, not insult
#10263: Jan 29th 2016 at 5:30:57 PM

As a rule of thumb in Brazil, the public schools just plain suck and fail hard at teaching while the private ones are decent but at college level the situation is usually reversed. There are quite good private colleges and some notoriously horrible federal colleges but what is considered the best are still the federal ones, I should note this scenario is reversing at college level due to bureaucracy and outdated teaching methods combined with diminishing funding.

It's more or less the same in Argentina.

1 2 We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be. -KV
Nettacki Since: Jan, 2010
#10264: Jan 30th 2016 at 1:11:49 AM

Now for something a bit more relevant to the topic:

Former Pantera vocalist Phil Anselmo has been caught under fire for some "White Power"-esque racist remarks and Nazi salutes he made at a concert last week, the video clip of which hasn't surfaced until a few days ago. Phil responded with this comment on the Youtube video (which may or may not be removed by the time you read this:)

Ok folks, I'll own this one, but dammit, I was joking, and the 'inside joke of the night' was because we were drinking fucking white wine, hahaha... Of all fucking things. Some of y'all need to thicken up your skin. There's plenty of fuckers to pick on with a more realistic agenda. I fucking love everyone, I fucking loathe everyone, and that's that. No apologies from me. PHA '16

Seems reasonable...until Machine Head vocalist/guitarist Robb Flynn pointed out in his video response that Phil was spouting bullshit (among other things) and he wasn't drinking white wine at all, but rather Deep Eddy Lemon-Flavored Vodka, thus casting doubt to the idea that his remarks were a "joke." And this editorial points out that this isn't the first time Anselmo has said some racist remarks, casting even further doubt to the idea that this was a "joke."

No doubt there are many people defending what he said, just like there are many attacking what he said. But what do you guys think?

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#10265: Jan 30th 2016 at 4:53:32 AM

He's an idiot and I am not surprised at all Phil did something like that.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#10266: Jan 30th 2016 at 8:03:00 AM

I consider jokes involving performing Nazi salutes to be in pretty horrible taste for the most part. What did he really think was going to happen?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#10267: Jan 30th 2016 at 8:55:10 AM

I'm finding this so hard to follow... I need to keep switching "Private" with "Public" and "Public" with "State", though on that not I had the option of going to a public school just down the road from me... there was no way in hell I was going there! there were no members of the opposite sex! tongue

advancing the front into TV Tropes
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#10268: Jan 30th 2016 at 8:58:31 AM

Meh this is one of the few cases where the American version of English makes more sense. And my boarding school had plenty of girls. tongue

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Nettacki Since: Jan, 2010
#10269: Jan 30th 2016 at 11:04:32 AM

[up][up][up]He probably thought people would be OK with it considering there are songs in metal about the horrors of the Holocaust, entrails being ripped from a virgin's cunt, and there's a guy in metal that collected Nazi memorabilia, amongst other things metal as a whole is infamous for.

He also thought that since there are worse people out there with "a more realistic agenda," he himself shouldn't have been shat on so much for a single word and gesture.

edited 30th Jan '16 2:10:09 PM by Nettacki

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#10270: Jan 30th 2016 at 6:18:52 PM

[up]I pretty much like the whole Slayers stance on murderers and Nazi stuff, the late Jeff Hanneman was interest in History, medals and Wehrmacht WII memorabilia while Tom Araya and King have an interest in serial killers. To be honest this is an interest I share with both Hanneman and Lemmy, but because it is something is interesting not because I am advocating for something that would require me to self terminate for having Jewish roots.

None of their songs or statements in anyway condone or defend Nazism and serial killers, but still doesn't stop people from accusing them of being Nazi sympathizers.

Phil on the other hand had plenty of racist comments and gestures being done unironically.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#10271: Jan 31st 2016 at 3:54:33 AM

And then there's NSBM, which is its own can of worms.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#10272: Jan 31st 2016 at 3:56:29 AM

And Varg. Although metalheads tell me Burzum is actually pretty good, despite Varg's nuttiness.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#10273: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:43:16 AM

So according to Facebook it's perfectly okay to use a Confederate Flag icon as your profile picture and it does not constitute Hate Speech.

[fumes]

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
nervmeister Since: Oct, 2010
#10274: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:53:28 AM

[up]Depends on intent. As shocking as this may seem, some people just like the image of the confederate flag for novelty reasons instead of for what it originally represented.

edited 2nd Feb '16 6:53:51 AM by nervmeister

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#10275: Feb 2nd 2016 at 6:55:58 AM

The intent does not mask context. I find the aesthetic of the syllables "f*ggot" really pleasing together, it does not mean I get to use the word without consequence.

Things have meaning, and just cause you like it without the meaning does not mean that meaning just goes away. Intent isn't everything.

edited 2nd Feb '16 6:56:25 AM by MrAHR

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