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SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#10301: Sep 1st 2025 at 5:28:14 AM

Glad I didn't fork out the money on the Collector's edition. The diorama wasn't an impressive design to begin with, but after seeing the figure of Naked Snake up close... yeesh.

Xorn15 Nurse Mordred Attending from R&D Platform, Seychelles Waters Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Nurse Mordred Attending
#10302: Sep 1st 2025 at 6:12:25 AM

[up]...Fuck me, that's almost Sader bad. How did they approve that?

diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#10303: Sep 1st 2025 at 6:41:13 AM

Another collectors edition from the Fallout 76 school of Collector's Editions.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#10304: Sep 1st 2025 at 7:10:44 AM

It’s Konami. Did people really expect better.

Disgusted, but not surprised
SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#10305: Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:12:38 AM

Certainly a unique take on Big Boss's sense of rejection and loss, and how he tries to make his own place of belonging.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#10306: Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:25:55 AM

While I suspect Kojima called it "Outer Heaven" because it sounded cool — same with Zanzibarland later — the spiritual implications were probably also rattling in his head too.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#10307: Sep 2nd 2025 at 7:31:03 AM

The wild thing is that Zanzibarland is nowhere near or around Zanzibar. It's in soviet asia.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#10308: Sep 2nd 2025 at 11:35:31 AM

Never forget how Big Boss came up with the name Outer Heaven in the first place.

"What these soldiers want is outside your heaven"

It's so fucking stupid, but I dunno, it kinda works.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#10309: Sep 2nd 2025 at 11:42:07 AM

I think it's like, the soldiers can't get into Heaven, so they made their own Heaven. "With blackjack, and hookers!"

Edited by WillKeaton on Sep 2nd 2025 at 12:42:33 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#10310: Sep 2nd 2025 at 11:45:48 AM

It's supposed to be Big Boss's retort towards Gene's proposed Army's Heaven, by basically calling it something soldiers don't want.

There is a theme of Big Boss being influenced by the various villains he encounters on his own way to becoming a villain. It's like how the prequel villains, Darth Maul, Count Dooku, and Grievous foreshadow Anakin's own transformation into Darth Vader.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#10311: Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:00:34 PM

Big Boss is also a dork and perfectly fine with dorky names for things.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Avenger09 Since: May, 2014
#10312: Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:10:26 PM

I saw it as Big Boss acknowledging that the world he wants is both a paradise and hell for soldiers. War gives them an eternal purpose but its also destructive and soul crushing.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#10313: Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:34:27 PM

It's kinda funny how in the end everyone in Metal Gear's universe kinda gets hung up on Big Boss being that larger than life figure who clearly was on to something, when in reality he was closer to an athlete that's really good at his physical sport but actually not that deep and just kind of suffering from a general malaise about existence and bouncing from philosophy to philosophy till he completely lost sight of what little point he might've had to start with.

diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#10314: Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:45:18 PM

Well, one of the themes of the series is how poorly hero worship can go. A pattern Solid Snake seems to see and actively tries to shake people like Raiden and Meryl from having towards him.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#10315: Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:49:19 PM

Big Boss is an interesting case of Dramatic Irony because of the Boss' legacy being what everyone failed to understand being passed down to him.

The Boss wanted world peace and everyone misunderstood that with Zero wanting to make an insane totalitarian conspiracy.

Big Boss didn't particularly care about any goals for soldiers as it was just a job for him and lifestyle.

And everyone assumed that Big Boss had a much greater philosophy when he was literally, 90% of the time, just thinking it'd be nice to have job security. His 'dream' was to run a PMC and not get fucked over by a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:50:45 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#10316: Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:57:16 PM

I mean, by the time of Metal Gear 2, Big Boss had gone full supervillain, training child orphans to be the new soldiers and war crime perpetrators. Sure Big Boss might have been seeking to overthrow the Patriots, but he was going to replace their rule with endless war just so he'd have a purpose, which Snake calls him out on.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 2nd 2025 at 4:57:42 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#10317: Sep 2nd 2025 at 1:59:18 PM

Really the main lesson about MGS 3 is all those codex conversations Para-Medic is having with Snake about movies, or SIGINT about tech? It's that Big Boss really should've found himself a fucking hobby to do when not at war.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#10318: Sep 2nd 2025 at 2:12:08 PM

He tried to do that, but war kept calling him back.

It's not totally unbelievable either, some soldiers do have the issue of coming back to civilian life.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#10319: Sep 2nd 2025 at 2:18:09 PM

"I watched First Blood last night, and said, "Yes! This is exactly what it's like trying to go back to "normal life" after a war." So I decided to make a nation for soldiers, by soldiers, where they can be soldiers forever and never have to go back to civilian life."

"I also kidnapped a scientist to create a nuclear equipped walking death tank. That's gonna be my new hobby."

Edited by WillKeaton on Sep 2nd 2025 at 3:23:22 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#10320: Sep 2nd 2025 at 2:20:49 PM

That actually is a plot point, I'd argue. Big Boss doesn't train Child Soldier because he wants to have easily indoctrinated Tyke-Bomb types who will kill at will, it's because he literally assumes it's a healthy reasonable life for a kid. It's how he was raised and assumes its normal like the Boy Scouts (arguably, he is trying to deprogram them without knowledge of how to do so). He's also not trying to overthrow the Patriots, which everyone assumes, because the real Big Boss knows Zero is brain dead.

That was Solidus and Liquid's plans.

Because neither of them really know Big boss. They just know the legend that is as much Venom Snake as Naked Snake.

Indeed, Solid becomes the one who understands him best because he doesn't TRY to know Big Boss. He doesn't care and thus is the only one who wins Big Boss' respect.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 2nd 2025 at 2:21:45 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#10321: Sep 2nd 2025 at 2:21:16 PM

[up][up]"I also stole the only chance to solve a resource crisis AND create peace between the Soviet Union and USA so I could plunge the world into war and give my adopted child soldiers their first combat experience."

[up] Yeah, there's a reason Big Boss states if Snake was is in his position, then the latter wouldn't make the same mistakes. And he's right, Metal Gear 1 and 2 is Big Boss inflicting the exact same pain on Snake that he went through in Solid 3.

Snake had nightmares of his experiences in 1 and 2, so there's no wonder he tried putting his past behind him and actually take up hobbies.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 2nd 2025 at 5:23:15 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#10322: Sep 2nd 2025 at 2:22:47 PM

That is another thing—I'm 90% sure Venom Snake is the Lighter and Softer of the two.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#10323: Sep 2nd 2025 at 2:24:55 PM

That actually is a plot point, I'd argue. Big Boss doesn't train Child Soldier because he wants to have easily indoctrinated kids, it's because he literally assumes it's a healthy reasonable life for a kid.

"I mean look at Ocelot. He was literally born on a battlefield and he's turned out into a very very normal person. Trust me kids it'll build character."

That is another thing—I'm 90% sure Venom Snake is the Lighter and Softer of the two.

MGSV outright confirms it. It's one of the foreshadowing that he's not Big Boss: He talks about wanting to have peace and move on from all this.

Edited by Ghilz on Sep 2nd 2025 at 5:25:42 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#10324: Sep 2nd 2025 at 2:27:04 PM

Another bit of Dramatic Irony, it's very probable that all of the insane Genome Soldier nonsense fed to Liquid came from Ocelot just fucking with him.

Because as far as Liquid is concerned, Big Boss refused to acknowledge him as a son and rejected him as a protege.

Whereas Venom didn't know the kid from Adam and just thought he was a little psychopath.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#10325: Sep 2nd 2025 at 2:27:40 PM

[up][up]Sure things are vague as shit, but I really do suspect that Big Boss sacrificed Venom Snake in part because Venom wouldn't have gone along with his plans, plus Miller did state he was going to send Big Boss to hell, so Venom MIGHT have been part of that.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 2nd 2025 at 5:28:06 PM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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