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dryunya Uh, what? from nom nom nom nom (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
Uh, what?
#1: May 27th 2011 at 11:39:49 AM

There's one thing that keeps bugging me: The tropes on work pages are generally alphabetized, and thus can easily be unwittingly calculated. Why don't we try grouping the spoiler tropes, for example, at the end of the page, or in a separate folder? I think such practice would improve the wiki a bit.

TheOtherWiki could really use Laconic entries.
melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#2: May 27th 2011 at 11:42:56 AM

I thought this was the policy already?

troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3: May 27th 2011 at 11:44:44 AM

This is something we already do, yeah. It hasn't been widely adopted yet, but it's a thing. Urinetown is an example.

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#4: May 27th 2011 at 11:46:22 AM

I'm kind of against this, really. What may be a spoiler in one work, might not be a spoiler in another work.

If we did it, it would lead to all kinds of inconsistent sorting, which we probably be worse for us than any current problems.

edited 27th May '11 11:47:23 AM by TotemicHero

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#5: May 27th 2011 at 11:48:01 AM

^ I thought it was that which tropes are grouped separately is decided on an individual basis. Tropes in the trope list that are spoilered are separated, everything else is fine in the main list. I don't see how that's a problem.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#6: May 27th 2011 at 11:50:53 AM

Consensus has suggested this, even though I don't like it. Honestly, if I haven't read/seen a work yet, and care at all about spoilers, it's probably not advisable to go tearing through the trope list. But that's just my opinion.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#7: May 27th 2011 at 11:54:11 AM

[up][up] That's my point. If a trope is sorted in a certain way on page X, I'd expect it to be sorted the same way on other pages too.

In case people haven't noticed yet, I'm a big fan of all pages following the same basic format. This...kind of flies in the face of that style of consistency.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
dryunya Uh, what? from nom nom nom nom (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
Uh, what?
#8: May 27th 2011 at 11:54:58 AM

[up][up] Well, I frequently use TV Tropes to find out whether I want to learn more about the work at all. Auto-spoilers are very, very annoying.

edited 27th May '11 11:56:50 AM by dryunya

TheOtherWiki could really use Laconic entries.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#9: May 27th 2011 at 12:26:04 PM

I, also, tend to read a trope list to see what kind of tropes are present before I decide whether or not to read a work. I find spoilers annoying as well. I strongly favor the "cluster spoiler tropes under a folder at the bottom" approach.

Fight smart, not fair.
dryunya Uh, what? from nom nom nom nom (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
Uh, what?
#10: May 27th 2011 at 12:35:05 PM

Therefore, I'll start doing this. ^_^

TheOtherWiki could really use Laconic entries.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#11: May 27th 2011 at 12:58:28 PM

Not sure why setting spoiler default as hidden in your profile and then not highlighting them wouldn't work just as well. Then again, I don't really mind spoilers.

Again, I don't agree with it, but consensus is consensus. Would be nice if someone could link the thread/crowner where this was decided, though.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#12: May 27th 2011 at 1:34:34 PM

I agree with Totemic Hero. I sometimes glance a trope list before reading/watch/playing some work (or while I am reading/watch/playing said work) and don't mind, at all, spoiled tropes. I just don't highlight them.

Having them grouped and not hidden in the end or in a folder, aside of being unaesthetic (my opinion), makes me more likely to be spoiled in long runners. I sometimes want to read about something I've seem already, but that is a a spoiler for newcomers. If the spoilers were all grouped, I couldn't do so without accidentally seeing some spoiler I don't know about yet.

Furthermore, I also have the tendency to seek for a few specific spoilers (such as wanting to know if there is a Happy or Bitter Sweet Ending in a particularly depressing work). Again, I wouldn't be able to do so without also seeing spoilers I don't want to.

chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#13: May 27th 2011 at 2:16:25 PM

I don't agree with grouping the spoiler tropes together. Just don't highlight them. Also, it would look unaesthetic, like putting the Anime and Manga folder near the end of a tropes page.

edited 27th May '11 2:18:37 PM by chihuahua0

melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#14: May 27th 2011 at 2:29:55 PM

The "not highlighting" thing doesn't work if you want to edit the page. Having them at the bottom makes you less likely to be able to see the tropes.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#15: May 27th 2011 at 2:34:58 PM

[up]I Beg to differ about being less likely to see them, as I said.

About editing. First of all, this wiki is about readers, not editors. Rules are meant for the reader's convenience, not the edotor's. And, during the editing, most of the text is nearly unreadable, unless you are actively trying, due to the wiki coding, anyway. Personally, I've never had any problem with spoilers while editing.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#16: May 27th 2011 at 2:35:44 PM

I can see this leading to a lot of dupe examples.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#17: May 27th 2011 at 2:38:17 PM

Plus, there could be quite a lot of debate for whatever a trope should go on top or on the bottom, due to Late-Arrival Spoiler.

[up] What do you mean by that?

edited 27th May '11 2:38:39 PM by chihuahua0

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#18: May 27th 2011 at 2:53:07 PM

The debate on whats a spoiler and whats not thing open one folder (or say the pages with 10 or 15 folders or worse having 5 pages or so.) scroll down to the letter see its not there and add it but its on the page already in the spoiler folder.

Also another thing Anime/Manga works spoiler different things. Like if Anime and Manga are running concurrently people will spoiler the Manga examples so they don't spoil the Anime only crowd. (full tropes or bullet points.) Or spoiler things that haven't officially hit the US yet. Having a secondary spoiler code for that would be a big help for that though.

edited 27th May '11 3:01:00 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#19: May 27th 2011 at 4:26:48 PM

Agree that this is a bad idea. It will lead to duplication, as people simply won't read to the spoiler bit at the bottom before adding the trope. Or there will be endless flame wars about what is and isn't sufficiently spoilerific, which could only be avoided by endless lawyering over where to draw the line. After all - to some people, almost any information at all about the work becomes a spoiler, and to some, almost nothing really is. And there's many, many kinds of inbetween.

Really not at all impressed by this, and I hope it doesn't become policy.

edited 27th May '11 4:27:55 PM by CaissasDeathAngel

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20: May 27th 2011 at 4:47:20 PM

The solution to the duplicate thing was brought up in the thread that originally proposed the split-thingy-whatchamacallit. You leave the duplicate trope in the list, but comment it out with the % tags.

TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#21: May 27th 2011 at 4:49:14 PM

Can we please have a link to this thread or any related crowners? I'd love to take everyone's word on this, but I do want to see exactly what went down the last time this came up.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#22: May 27th 2011 at 4:55:57 PM

Yeah, there seem to be plenty of objections in this thread, including a mod.

Even if duplicates aren't a problem, whinging about what is and isn't a spoiler is impossible to avoid. It's a subjective concept and this requires an impossible objective definition (we get by okay on the Wiki at large, but that doesn't require segregating tropes as spoiler and non-spoiler).

edited 27th May '11 4:56:11 PM by CaissasDeathAngel

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
dryunya Uh, what? from nom nom nom nom (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Forming Voltron
Uh, what?
#23: May 28th 2011 at 3:06:23 AM

OK, I'm confused now. T_T

TheOtherWiki could really use Laconic entries.
TotemicHero No longer a forum herald from the next level Since: Dec, 2009
No longer a forum herald
#24: May 28th 2011 at 11:08:47 AM

Given the lack of response to my question, I'm going to assume that said threads or crowners have vanished into the Twisting Nether.

Seeing as this issue seems to be pretty heavily divided, should we start a new crowner and settle this?

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
#25: May 28th 2011 at 11:24:21 AM

[up] Go ahead.

By the way, I presume only mods can attach Crowners to threads, right? But anyone could create a Crowner?

SingleProposition: HandlingSpoilers
28th May '11 11:32:04 AM

Crown Description:

Should inherently spoiler tropes (Tropes where the very name of the trope is a spoiler for the work, like Bad Guy Wins or The Hero Dies) be grouped up at the bottom of work pages that they are spoilers for?

Total posts: 108
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