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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in the LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion Thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:53:59 PM

Medinoc Chaotic Greedy from France Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Chaotic Greedy
#19751: May 14th 2018 at 5:08:59 AM

If it's anything like here, you can find places with two gendered single-occupancy restrooms, like small restaurants.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#19752: May 14th 2018 at 5:39:23 AM

[up] Which is completely stupid, like gendered groups of stalls with only sinks on the side (like where we work).

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#19753: May 14th 2018 at 7:39:01 AM

[up]You can still find the ghost of the same in shops and restaurants in the UK which haven't updated their floor plans much in ages. But, most dinky cafes and restaurants have long since ditched the diddy segregated gender single bathroom thing in favour of enlarging one (usually by sacrificing storage space adjoining the bathroom) and turning it into the disabled loo (which they, by law, must also have). Leaving both of the offered bathrooms unisex.

edited 14th May '18 7:43:56 AM by Euodiachloris

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#19754: Jun 28th 2018 at 12:32:32 PM

So the Ohio wing of the GOP is in full on "our feels trump your professional ethics" mode.

As in they want to see therapists who refuse to out trans* kids to their parents brought up on fourth-degree felony charges.

I mean I don't know exactly when "patient confidentiality" became a dirty word in the state, but apparently it has something to do with the courts taking custody of a child away from their parents rather than let them be sent for conversion therapy.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Adannor from effin' belarus Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
#19755: Jun 28th 2018 at 12:35:31 PM

Yikes.

Yeah, definitely a push for a chance to beat it out of the kids the moment they start getting any ideas. Fucking hell.

SciFiSlasher from Absolutely none of your business. Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#19756: Jun 29th 2018 at 9:25:07 PM

High school that showed LGBTQ anti-bullying videos is accused of making a heterosexual student feel "bullied."

Typical "b-b-but I'm not homophobic! How dare you call me homophobic, you f*****s!"

Edited by SciFiSlasher on Jun 30th 2018 at 8:47:21 AM

"Somehow the hated have to walk a tightrope, while those who hate do not."
Adannor from effin' belarus Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
#19758: Jun 30th 2018 at 3:31:39 AM

Kinda curious for why did they deny to show the presentations when requested afterwards? They're already a public shown material, why not show them too - maybe they'll learn something.

Grafite Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Less than three
#19759: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:54:27 AM

I would actually understand if they complained about being forced to watch a cringey Buzzfeed video. But when you act like being told how to be more respectful to different groups of people is bullying, that's simply stupid.

Life is unfair...
BlueFire Since: Jun, 2018
#19760: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:27:23 AM

^I would feel bullied if I was forced to watch a buzzfeed video.

Granted, I wouldn’t complain about my sexual orientation being attacked just my sensibilities of not watching garbage

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#19762: Jul 31st 2018 at 10:46:41 AM

Bigoted irrational fucks, I hope that ruling is striked down or overwritten or whatever the Michigan equivalent is.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#19763: Jul 31st 2018 at 11:52:42 AM

What the actual fuck?

This is why you don't let your Legislative branch nominate and elect your Judiciary branch...

Angry gets shit done.
Elfive Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#19764: Aug 1st 2018 at 3:16:22 AM

I've always said the solution to this is to get the biggest, burliest transman you can find, with like a big beard, and go "well, would you be comfortable with him changing with you? Because that's what you're asking us to do."

Edited by Elfive on Aug 1st 2018 at 11:21:46 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#19765: Sep 26th 2018 at 8:25:18 AM

A little bit of local news I thought might be appreciated here:

Meridian bans LGBTQ discrimination: “a clear message of inclusivity”

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/article218999140.html

Discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity became illegal in Idaho’s second-largest municipality, after the Meridian City Council voted 4-2 late Tuesday night to protect LGBTQ individuals.

The vote came after nearly four hours of tearful and heartfelt testimony. Community members cried. Council members choked up. The Constitution, the flag and the Bible were invoked. Conservative Christians bemoaned the loss of religious freedoms. Teachers decried that gay teenagers have been driven to suicide because of bullying and family censure.

And the Idaho legislature was pilloried for what council members and those who addressed them described as a dereliction of duty, forcing cities to pass civil rights protections that would be better addressed at the state level.

Mayor Tammy de Weerd kicked off the hearing at around 6:30 p.m. by warning the six-member council that she would not break a tie, that “this is an important policy making decision. Council will need to have a majority for this to pass.”

And she ended the night just before 11 p.m., ruing that “this is something that our state legislature should be addressing, not at the local level. It’s really unfortunate that our state has shirked this responsibility.”

RAlexa21th Brenner's Wolves Fight Again from California Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
#19766: Sep 26th 2018 at 8:58:04 AM

That is great.

Where there's life, there's hope.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#19767: Sep 26th 2018 at 9:59:08 AM

[up][up]That is fantastic. And, a wonderful way to stick two fingers up at the state while hoisting a rainbow flag on the city mast. smile

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#19768: Sep 26th 2018 at 11:17:36 AM

Watch the state government pass laws to restrict local government efforts like this.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#19769: Oct 18th 2018 at 8:22:25 AM

With Kavanaugh going to the court, expect to kiss LGBT rights goodbye, as evangelicals push cases up that Kennedy wouldn't side with.

    Full article text 
Emphasis mine.
Do businesses have a First Amendment right to discriminate against same-sex couples? The Supreme Court was supposed to answer this question last term in Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission. But Justice Anthony Kennedy lost his nerve and crafted a compromise ruling that ducked the main issue. He then quit the bench, leaving LGBTQ rights in the hands of his successor, Justice Brett Kavanaugh, as well as the cadre of reactionary judges whom President Donald Trump appointed to the lower courts.

On Tuesday, the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals heard arguments in Telescope Media Group v. Lindsey, a follow-up to Masterpiece Cakeshop. The 8th Circuit, which recently received an infusion of Trump appointees, looks poised to use Telescope to hobble civil rights laws. It will also tee up a potential Supreme Court showdown that will allow Kavanaugh to do what Kennedy wouldn’t and deny same-sex couples equal access to the marketplace. If the court does take that drastic step, then the impact won’t be limited to gay rights: Decades of precedent protecting Americans—including racial minorities—from discrimination could be in grave peril.

The first thing you need to know about Telescope is that it isn’t a real case. Unlike in Masterpiece Cakeshop—where a baker turned away a gay couple, then insisted upon his right to do so—nobody has suffered any injury here. Telescope Media Group is a media production company in Minnesota that films ads and live events for profit. Its owners, a married couple named Angel and Carl Larsen, view their work through the lens of their Christian faith. (Motto: “We want to magnify Christ like a telescope.”) But the company does not currently shoot wedding videos, so it has never had an opportunity to reject a same-sex couple, and it has not been fined by the state for its anti-gay stance.

Instead, it was Telescope that sued Minnesota, demanding an exemption from the state’s Human Rights Act. The act is a standard nondiscrimination law that prohibits commercial businesses from discriminating against customers on the basis of several traits, including sexual orientation. Telescope is represented by Alliance Defending Freedom, or ADF, an evangelical law firm that specializes in anti-LGBTQ impact litigation. The purpose of this case is not to protect Angel and Carl Larsen from some gay trolls seeking to shut down Telescope because of its owners’ beliefs. Rather, it’s part of ADF’s long-term strategy to enshrine discrimination in the law by securing special rights for Christian business owners to refuse service to LGBTQ people.

Jeremy Tedesco, the ADF attorney who argued Telescope on Tuesday, got around the hypothetical nature of the case by claiming that the Larsens want to “immediately enter the industry.” They are afraid to do so, he explained, for fear of sanctions under Minnesota’s Human Rights Act; they fear that if they reject a gay couple, they will be put out of business. Tedesco insisted that the Larsens have a free speech right to refuse to film same-sex weddings because they wish to “tell stories about marriage.” By forcing them to serve gay customers, Minnesota is regulating “the creation of films,” which constitutes compelled speech in violation of the First Amendment.

Tedesco found a mostly receptive audience. He faced Judges Bobby Shepherd, Jane Kelly, and David Ryan Stras. Shepherd is a hard-line conservative who recently defied the Supreme Court’s decision prohibiting draconian restrictions on abortion clinics. Kelly is a moderate liberal and the only Obama appointee to the 8th Circuit. (Thank blue slips for that.) Stras is a Trump appointee whose nomination drew fierce opposition from civil rights organizations. Before Tedesco even opened his mouth, he seemed likely to land a 2–1 decision in his favor.

Stras and Shepherd did nothing to suggest otherwise throughout the course of arguments. Kelly peppered Tedesco with tough questions, reminding him that same-sex couples “have the liberty right to marry.” Doesn’t the state have a strong interest in protecting their ability to exercise that right? But Tedesco told Kelly that she had it backwards—it’s Angel and Carl Larsen’s right that needs safeguarding. “The state doesn’t tolerate or respect the beliefs of people like Carl and Angel,” Tedesco said, when it forces them “to express an idea about marriage that they disagree with.”

Alethea Huyser, Minnesota’s assistant solicitor general, tried to reframe the case as a straightforward application of settled principles. “Minnesota’s law regulates discrimination based on protected status,” she told the court. “It does not regulate message.” Moreover, it doesn’t target any particular kind of speech; in the parlance of Supreme Court doctrine, it’s “content-neutral.” The Human Rights Act isn’t designed to compel pro-gay speech or anti-Christian speech or any speech at all. It merely prohibits businesses from turning away certain customers on the basis of a protected trait.

Stras vigorously disagreed. “In my view, to the extent [the law] touches speech, it prohibits only discriminatory speech. That’s not content-neutral,” he told Huyser. This theory is astonishing. The Supreme Court has long recognized that nondiscrimination laws do not generally implicate the First Amendment because they regulate conduct, not speech. And when the laws do regulate speech, they impose only an “incidental burden” on expression that does not trigger strict scrutiny. As the Supreme Court has explained, a law that bars an employer from hanging a sign that states “White Applicants Only” technically regulates speech. But its purpose is to regulate conduct, and so it should not be subject to stringent First Amendment review.

It seems that Stras disagrees. After all, a law that bars “White Applicants Only” signs prohibits only discriminatory speech, just like Minnesota’s Human Rights Act. Does that mean every nondiscrimination law, including the Civil Rights Act of 1964, is not content-neutral and must therefore pass strict scrutiny? That would require each law to be “narrowly tailored to serve compelling state interests.” So the question would then be: Does preventing discrimination in the marketplace qualify as a compelling interest, and if so, can laws that preclude such bigoted speech be sufficiently tailored to survive First Amendment scrutiny?

Not to Stras. If the court finds that videography is compelled speech, he asked Huyser, “doesn’t the state necessarily lose, because they have no interest in compelling somebody to speak?”

This statement has stunning implications. A huge number of activities, from videography and photography to baking, card design, and virtually all wedding services, compel some form of speech. And civil rights measures always compel expression; managers, for instance, must train their employees not to discriminate, promoting the state’s message of equality in commerce. Under Stras’ theory, any law that directs businesses to serve customers equally—and do so in a manner that involves speech—would be unconstitutional. The entire legal framework that supports civil rights laws would come toppling down.

Stras didn’t pull this idea out of a hat. He got it from Justices Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch, who seized upon Masterpiece Cakeshop to promote a radical reconception of the First Amendment. In a concurrence joined by Gorsuch, Thomas wrote that a vast range of nondiscrimination laws should be held unconstitutional because they compel businesses to “communicate” a message. Thomas and Gorsuch couldn’t get a majority back then—but with Kennedy gone, they may have more luck using the First Amendment to sabotage nondiscrimination measures. Stras is teeing Telescope up for the justices, even though the plaintiffs in this case have nothing at stake. And next time around, with Kavanaugh on the court, they may have five votes to abolish civil rights laws as we know them.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#19770: Oct 18th 2018 at 9:04:36 AM

Oh wonderful. </s>

"Yup. That tasted purple."
AzurePaladin She/Her Pronouns from Forest of Magic Since: Apr, 2018 Relationship Status: Mu
She/Her Pronouns
#19771: Oct 18th 2018 at 7:25:18 PM

[up][up] Of course. Of course they are. Well, at least we get all those great op-eds about how our right to be treated equally is less important than the feelings of bigots.

The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -Fighteer
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#19772: Oct 23rd 2018 at 2:45:52 PM

A cross post from US Politics and today's What The Fuck Just Happened Today feed:

Trump on protections for transgender people: "I'm protecting everybody. I want to protect our country." (Reuters)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lgbt/trump-says-transgender-policy-seeks-to-protect-the-country-idUSKCN1MW2XE

smokeycut Since: Mar, 2013
#19773: Oct 23rd 2018 at 4:43:27 PM

He has to protect society from us? What, because we're deviants? Perverts? Rapists and monsters?

Fuck that, and fuck him. We need to be protected from society.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#19774: Oct 25th 2018 at 2:25:35 PM

Caitlyn Jenner Washinton Post Op-Ed: I thought Trump would help the LGBTQ community; I was wrong.

    Op-Ed 
These past two years under President Trump have given me the opportunity to reflect on a lot of topics that have come up in the LGBTQ community and in our nation. Some of these are thorny issues still worth discussing; many should have been settled long ago. As I’ve watched and pondered, my outlook has changed significantly from what it was during my highly publicized and glamorized early Caitlyn days, when my life as an out trans woman was just beginning.

Since then, I have learned and continue to learn about the obstacles our community faces, the politics that surround us and the places my voice can help. I have reflected on what my unique position of privilege means and how I can best use it to make a positive difference.

Following Trump’s election as president, I saw fertile ground for change within the Republican Party on LGBTQ issues. Trump was the first Republican presidential candidate to claim to support this valuable, vulnerable community, and I was encouraged by the applause he received when he said at the Republican National Convention in July 2016 that he would stand up for the LGBTQ community. Poll after poll showed that Americans’ views on LGBTQ issues were changing for the better — and that this groundswell extended even to the voter base of the Republican Party. I was optimistic that this was how I could leverage my privilege for change.

I believed I could work within the party and the Trump administration to shift the minds of those who most needed shifting. I made many trips to Washington to lobby and educate members of Congress, other Washington policymakers and powerful influencers. These meetings were generally positive and almost always led to encouraging conversations. Despite the criticism I received from segments of the LGBTQ community for engaging with this administration, I remained hopeful for positive change.

Sadly, I was wrong. The reality is that the trans community is being relentlessly attacked by this president. The leader of our nation has shown no regard for an already marginalized and struggling community. He has ignored our humanity. He has insulted our dignity. He has made trans people into political pawns as he whips up animus against us in an attempt to energize the most right-wing segment of his party, claiming his anti-transgender policies are meant to “protect the country.” This is politics at its worst. It is unacceptable, it is upsetting, and it has deeply, personally hurt me.

Believing that I could work with Trump and his administration to support our community was a mistake. The recently leaked Department of Health and Human Services memo that suggests — preposterously and unscientifically — that the government ought to link gender to one’s genitalia at birth is just one more example in a pattern of political attacks. One doesn’t need to look back far to witness the president assault our nation’s guardians with a ban on trans people serving in the military or assail our nation’s future with a rollback of Obama-era protections for trans schoolchildren.

It’s clear these policies have come directly from Trump, and they have been sanctioned, passively or actively, by the Republicans by whose continued support he governs. My hope in him — in them — was misplaced, and I cannot support anyone who is working against our community. I do not support Trump. I must learn from my mistakes and move forward.

I am more determined than ever to find the best way to bring trans issues to the fore of our social and political conversation, domestically and abroad. I need to listen more to the members of the LGBTQ community and to learn more. I need to better use my voice, my privilege and my foundation to advocate for and support our community.

I must continue to educate political and corporate leaders about the issues of homelessness, job discrimination, violence, access to health care, prejudice in housing, depression, suicide and so many other issues that disproportionately affect our long-ignored community. I will still work with anyone who is committed to help our community.

The world needs to hear us. The world needs to know us. We will not be erased.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#19775: Oct 25th 2018 at 2:29:19 PM

She's an idiot for expecting otherwise. It's like working for an abuser, knowing they're harmful and hoping you can change them.


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