Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in the LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion Thread
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Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.
Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.
Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:53:59 PM
On an intellectual level, sure. But as a personality type, I find Camp Gay very grating. It's just like being irritated by, say, a ridiculously macho laddish type.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.Not "Has The Right To". "Deserves".
<Off Topic>And Lil' Wayne is overrated, dälek is where it's at. Also: Nerdcore.</Off Topic>
edited 23rd Mar '12 11:37:27 AM by inane242
The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.@Starship
Acceptance SHOULD be a universal ideal, and IS right, but it's not the same thing as changing someone. I don't ask that straight people be gay or think they should be gay (because that would stupid beyond reason) but I still ask think they shouldn't be hateful of homophobic, and should accept and appreciate my for who I am.
I'm sorry Starship, but I can't honestly take "Christians don't demand anyone accept their beliefs." seriously, The Puritans, the Roman Catholic Church....There is a long bloody history that comes with Christians trying to force their beliefs on others and force people to accept them.
And Starship is, unfortunately, right: You do not have the right to be accepted by others.
edited 23rd Mar '12 11:45:05 AM by inane242
The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.How do you reach the conclusion it's a choice?
And it's not something I believe, it's something I know with an absolute and undying certainty.
I never would have chosen this.
edited 23rd Mar '12 11:49:02 AM by inane242
The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.I never said it should be compulsory.
We live in a less than ideal world, where people are unaccepting of others for stupid reasons. You can't MAKE someone accept anything, and they have the right to their own opinion, which trumps the right of others to be accepted.
That said, you DON'T have the right to be openly hostile, you have freedom of thought, not action.
edited 23rd Mar '12 11:52:00 AM by inane242
The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.To clarify my above post: under the U.S. constitution you have the right to think as you please wherever you wish, and in a public area you have the right to speak freely.
Well, Fast Eddie doesn't like people saying that sort of thing, but I digress.
edited 23rd Mar '12 11:58:42 AM by inane242
The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.@Starship
I still don't understand, and have never heard a real argument, as to why homosexuality is wrong that isn't based on arbitrary fear or ignorance.
Can you give me one real reason why I shouldn't be able to make love to the man I have fallen in love with and who loves me in return? One actual argument as to why acting on my feelings for another would be bad?
I have never heard a real argument as to why homosexuality is wrong, I have never been told who it hurts, what it destroys, what makes it a supposed sin, the same as I have never heard an argument as to why eating shellfish or planting different crops is evil.
edited 23rd Mar '12 12:07:13 PM by LMage
You do have the right to, say, think I shouldn't get married, but you don't have the right to stop me from getting married.
edited 23rd Mar '12 12:23:15 PM by inane242
The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.Sexual orientation is not a choice. That has been the consensus of the medical, scientific, psychiatric and psychological communities for over 30 years. If people could choose to be gay, they could choose to be straight. I didn't choose to be straight. I couldn't choose to be gay if I wanted to.
And in any case, when I hear somebody say that they don't "approve" of homosexuality, my question to them is, "Who do you think you are?" It is nobody's place to "approve" or "disapprove" of another person's orientation. Nobody has the right to pass moral judgment on another person because of something they didn't choose. I don't care how fancy their hat is.
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.@Starship: you just got me very very curious... do you enjoy Tom Jones perchance? I do...
Also, this episode raises some interesting points:
The episode reflects (with comical exaggeration), the real-life situation where the problem with being gay clearly seems to be being a "sissy": hanging out with girls, rather than men, showing emotional sensitivity and a sense of romance... basically the same sort of stuff teen idols like Edward Cullen or Justin Bieber get flak for. A real man should not need to look attractive to girls, should not need girls in his life. The "homies", the "bros" should be enough, and girls are more like trophies or accessories. This sort of cultural, macho-gay attitude is the same you can find in Ancient Greece* and in Feudal Japan* and in some current tribes of Papua New Guinea*. It can also be extended to Prison Rape and to sexual abuse in the military. Reasonings along the lines of "You're asking me to suck your dick/let you fuck me in the ass, doesn't that make you gay?" "No way, you doing what I ask you makes you gay, I'm as straight as can be." So I'd suspect there's some sort of human universal in there somewhere, that has cross-culture, intercontinental appeal. Perhaps they never grew out of the Girls Have Cooties phase?!
Anyway, the strange thing lies here: the manliest thing is to eliminate the women of the equation entirely, but the unmanliest thing is to take on the role of the woman, in general behavior but especially in being the "reciever" rather than the "pitcher".
But, well, that seems to explain the popular understanding of "gay men" and the typical confusion with transgenders, transvestites, and so on and so forth... but does nothing to explain lesbian hate, especially butch.
Where does that come from? Are men afraid of the competition?
And, speaking of competition, homophobia from women and misogyny from gay men is also an interesting topic. I saw a huge book about it in my local library, but never had the time to read it. Seems like a widespread phenomenon... can anyone here confirm this? What is it, some form of mutual envy?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Well, if you don't find women attractive, you're more likely to notice them being bitchy. And trying to use their feminine wiles on you and others. And they can make out with dudes in public, and I'll admit to some jealousy for that.
That said, most of my friends IRL are Butch Lesbian types (*I seem to fit in with them better than the gay dudes at school*), so it's more a distaste for the behavior of certain heterosexual women.
And I dunno anything about homophobic chicks.
The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.Heh, I needed books to acquire a (relative) immunity to said wiles. Seduction from a male, however, just feels awkward: it's usually pretty clumsy. In my experience, gay guys are as bad and insecure at picking up as straight guys.
Which reminds of that one time I bought this book, as a gift, for a girl friend of mine. It was a PUA book for women. The vendor gave me a look... And I thought afterwards: "I never thought of it that way, but can we mean learn from women how to seduce other men, if only psychologcially?". I'm still waiting for her to finish it so I can have a look and see what all the fuss is about.
Actually, is there such a thing as gay PUA?
Also, there's going after straight guys, which is just plain annoying, but what about acting as a Closet Key to undiscovered bisexuals? Is there a way to tell in advance?
edited 23rd Mar '12 1:45:45 PM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

I though the point of the LGBT rights movement was LGBT rights.
The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.