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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in the LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion Thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:53:59 PM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#18826: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:26:33 PM

[up][up] No, you're still a victim even if you're not ruled by your status as a victim.

[up] It may be worth moving to the Semantics thread but it's important to get language clear.

edited 28th Apr '16 5:27:46 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#18827: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:52:47 PM

So if you can never stop being a victim, what follows?

I mean, selective abortion seems to lurk in these shadows.

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#18828: Apr 28th 2016 at 5:57:52 PM

Yeah if you've been victimised you'll always be a victim, now your status as someone who's a victim may stop mattering to your and your life, it may stop having an effect on you, but moving past something doesn't stop you being a victim, otherwise we'd only arrest people for crimes that the victim hasn't recovered from, which woudl be stupid.

Oh and a bit more on topic, the lesbian being kicked out of a bathroom in NC video? It's from December, so not connected to the new laws, still shitty though.[1]

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Mikon :3
#18829: Apr 28th 2016 at 7:05:00 PM

"Victim" is starting to sound less and less like a real word.

flameboy21th The would-be novelist from California Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
The would-be novelist
#18830: Apr 28th 2016 at 7:51:05 PM

It almost sounds like a slur.

edited 28th Apr '16 7:51:14 PM by flameboy21th

Non Indicative Username
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#18831: Apr 28th 2016 at 10:00:11 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#18832: Apr 28th 2016 at 10:26:37 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
shimaspawn MOD from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#18833: Apr 28th 2016 at 11:07:15 PM

Garridob, no one else defines victim the way you do in English. It's not a forever all defining state. All it means is that at some point, something happened to you. That's it. It's not a slur, it's not some perpetual thing. Please take your personal dictionary to the semantics thread of you want to keep arguing about it but your personal definition of the word is not on topic.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#18834: Apr 28th 2016 at 11:18:33 PM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Morgikit Mikon :3 from War Drobe, Spare Oom Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#18836: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:24:04 AM

What if the person wants to undergo conversion therapy? There are lots of ineffective therapies people use, right?

edited 29th Apr '16 4:25:18 AM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#18837: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:27:49 AM

Then that person needs counselling for their self hatred and indoctrination.

Conversion therapy is literal torture. They brutalize the person until they stop "acting gay". It almost always end in suicide after they get home and the therapy is deemed "successful"

Oh really when?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#18838: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:30:04 AM

I dunno. Worth noting also that a petition to consider "conversion therapy" as a form of fraud on regulatory level (i.e by a federal government directive) rather than legislatively is also mentioned in the article.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#18839: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:37:12 AM

I agree. But should they be compelled to abstain?[up][up]

edited 29th Apr '16 4:38:48 AM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#18840: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:41:10 AM

[up]Compelled to get treatment for the "conversion therapy"? Yes. A critical intervention to prevent self-harm if ever I saw one.

Because that's what "conversion therapy" is: letting it happen is like watching somebody take a razor to their wrists and not doing anything.

It doesn't work. There is no scientific basis. It's torture and quackery and should be stopped. Just like "religious education camps for troubled teens" should be stamped out and recognised for the abuse mills they are.

edited 29th Apr '16 4:44:37 AM by Euodiachloris

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#18841: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:41:42 AM

What sort of question even is that? You stop them like you'd stop someone from jumping off a bridge.

Not like it matters, anyone willing to provide such therapy will hopefully be jailed in the first place.

[nja]

edited 29th Apr '16 4:42:17 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#18842: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:47:19 AM

Hmm. So choice is a nono with this. Okay.

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#18843: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:50:35 AM

I think you may have confused "conversion therapy" (quotes marks are intended) with transitioning, garridob.

They are very different things. This is what conversion therapy is like. Not a lot of people voluntarily go for it, for a very good reason. Not to mention those who claim to have "gotten over their dirty sodomite feelings" only to relapse soon after.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#18844: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:51:24 AM

What if the person wants to undergo conversion therapy?

They will have to accept the disappointment of discovering that what they want isn't available, because it doesn't exist. The bill isn't banning a medical practise, it's officially declaring that a fake medical practise that doesn't work is fake.

It puts 'conversion therapy' in the same catagory as other fake medical procedures that people are conned into getting, which is where it belongs.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#18845: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:51:24 AM

I completely agree it doesn't work. And yeah, if it claims to work, that's probably fraud. If there's something like "homeopathy" for homosexuals, though, I don't see how that's dangerous.

Is all reparative therapy physically dangerous?

I don't see why you couldn't try it with psychoanalysis, for example, which seems like it should be open to consenting (if deluded) customers.

edited 29th Apr '16 4:56:44 AM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#18846: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:51:54 AM

Conversion therapy is a choice like asking a stranger to stab you in the face is a choice. It's illegal for that person to do it whether you want them to or not, and your request indicates a serious mental aberration on your part.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
garridob My name's Ben. from South Korea Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
My name's Ben.
#18847: Apr 29th 2016 at 4:57:40 AM

Edit. Sorry, misunderstood.

edited 29th Apr '16 5:06:49 AM by garridob

Great men are almost never good men, they say. One wonders what philosopher of the good would value the impotence of his disciples.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#18848: Apr 29th 2016 at 5:15:06 AM

[up][up][up]I really don't see why physical harm has to be the only metric by which reparative therapy can be judged as harmful. Psychological harm is very real, regardless of what STEMlords claim.

And I'm willing to say that homeopathy is dangerous. Catching an infectious disease because some moron thought a massively diluted herb would fix it is not my idea of fun.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#18849: Apr 29th 2016 at 5:25:13 AM

On the other hand, I find the claim of suicide as mental illness (used in a few comparisons here) dubious.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#18850: Apr 29th 2016 at 5:28:12 AM

I don't. I've had a few close calls with friends and I've had some who went through with it. None of them were of sound mind and body at the time and every single one of them either benefited or would have benefited from treatment.

Oh really when?

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