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Discussion of religion in the context of LGBTQ+ rights is only allowed in the LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion Thread.

Discussion of religion in any other context is off topic in all of the "LGBTQ+ rights..." threads.

Attempting to bait others into bringing up religion is also not allowed.

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 1st 2023 at 6:53:59 PM

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#18551: Feb 27th 2016 at 10:23:44 PM

I figured those bosses firing gay people use a completely different reason, and there's no way to tell 'firing because of legit reasons' from 'firing because worker is gay'. Similar things for women, or pregnant women.

Actually, it's the other way around. If the boss says "I hate gays, so you're fired" then you have no legal recourse whatsoever because sexuality is not a legally protected class in the US and the default rule of at-will employment is that employment can be terminated at any time for any reason or no reason at all.

However, if they don't say that, then you could potentially argue that it actually had nothing to do with you being gay, and they were really discriminating against your sex for not being manly/womanly enough. Basically, the more stereotypically gay you are, the better case you have, because discriminating against people for not meeting society's standards for manliness/womanliness is legally protected.

edited 27th Feb '16 10:25:42 PM by Clarste

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#18552: Feb 28th 2016 at 5:27:55 AM

Since when? Because that's certainly not what protection based on sex, gender or gender identity means.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#18553: Feb 28th 2016 at 5:53:09 AM

Since some landmark case that I forgot the name of. Some woman successfully sued her employer for sex discrimination on the basis that her employer mistreated her because of "sexual stereotyping". They didn't promote her because she wasn't feminine enough (she was too assertive, didn't wear makeup, etc), which was actually the reason they wrote on internal memos and whatnot. The Supreme Court decided that this falls under gender discrimination. Since then, clever lawyers have decided to use this "sexual stereotyping" loophole to protect their homosexual clients, although courts have backed away from claiming that homosexuality is per se unfeminine/unmasculine behavior (I guess that's progressive, technically).

The point though is just that sexuality as a class currently has 0 protection under US federal law, and even the most ridiculously shoehorned argument that it's not based on sexuality has a better chance of succeeding.

edited 28th Feb '16 6:02:06 AM by Clarste

Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#18554: Feb 28th 2016 at 5:55:45 AM

That must be annoying. You can win the case, but you have to rely on homophobic stereotypes a bit to do so.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#18555: Feb 28th 2016 at 6:06:21 AM

Well, it usually ends up more like "They didn't actually know I was gay, they just assumed I was because of my lisp. Therefore the mistreatment couldn't have been because I was gay, but was instead sexual stereotyping." It's not like they have to play up their gayness in court or anything, they just have to establish that their mistreatment was caused by secondary traits, rather than their homosexuality itself.

I suppose this also encourages people to not come out to their coworkers when possible.

edited 28th Feb '16 6:07:48 AM by Clarste

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#18556: Feb 28th 2016 at 7:03:36 AM

I thought private businesses were already allowed to close whenever they liked.
TBH I'm not sure how this changes the status quo. I think it's an excuse for businesses to put up signs saying, "It's Sunday, go to church" without legal penalty? Because yes, there's no law I'm aware of to prevent a movie theater or Mc Donalds or a lawyer's office from closing on a Sundaynote . I've driven down a major street in a citynote  and gone three miles before finding a single open business on Easter Sunday.

The only thing I can think of is, let's say the Catholic-run hospital decides that Sunday should be a say for church and not one for medical emergencies. So they close their doors on Sunday. They're now legally protected from lawsuits by the families of people who died from lack of medical care, because the law says they can close on their holy day and no one can stop them.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#18557: Feb 28th 2016 at 7:23:21 AM

It can be argued that a hospital provides a vital public service and cannot be closed. There are other such businesses. The employees of power plants can't just pack up and go home for Christmas, for example.

There are businesses in my part of Pennsylvania that close on Monday for religious reasons. You shrug and shop somewhere else.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
cake1 Welcome to the Literature club! from A parallel universe Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Welcome to the Literature club!
#18558: Feb 28th 2016 at 8:19:57 AM

This is a good point. As long as the service provided isn't strictly necessary at all times, they have a right to obey whatever religious ordinances they want to.

edited 28th Feb '16 8:21:07 AM by cake1

The ink flows into a dark puddle, just move your hand- write the way into his heart
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#18559: Feb 28th 2016 at 8:32:58 AM

...Or they could just close shop for the day because they're on vacation, or sick, or just not in the mood. Most services don't have laws requiring them to stay open for any reason.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#18560: Feb 28th 2016 at 6:45:27 PM

The Blue Laws used to mandate non-vital businesses be shut on Sundays in certain states. My parents mentioned them in the past.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#18561: Feb 28th 2016 at 6:53:36 PM

Yeah laws demanding that places close on Sunday are a thing, but ones demanding that they stay open? I've never heard of them, I assume that it's a windmill law and no actual problem exists.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#18562: Feb 28th 2016 at 7:17:19 PM

I don't know if there are laws mandating that essential services stay open. I should think there are regulations on pharmacies and hospitals that say they can't keep prohibitive hours in the former case and are probably never allowed to shut down if they qualify as an emergency room in the latter case.

Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#18563: Feb 28th 2016 at 11:59:54 PM

In France, there's always at least one pharmacy "de garde" on any given day in a given area (usually it means said pharmacy is open on this Sunday). Pharmacies alternate which is "de garde"

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#18564: Feb 29th 2016 at 12:34:03 AM

So French stuff does open on Sundays? My recent visit had left me with the impression that the entire country closed for Sunday (and often Saturday as well). tongue

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Medinoc from France (Before Recorded History)
#18565: Feb 29th 2016 at 12:41:33 AM

There's a law about closing almost everything on Sunday except some exempted stuff (which includes the pharmacie de garde du jour), bakeries (provided they're still closed two days a week) and a few other businesses (restaurants, laser tag etc. because most of their activity happens on week-ends).

Some non-exempted businesses get a limited number of sundays for opening (which they tend to spend during the soldes, the holidays period, etc.), and others can get some kind of permits, I think. There was some kind of shitstorm at some point because several hardware store chains had such permits while one did not, for reasons the state couldn't explain. This resulted in the hardware store nearest to my home closing permanently, because hardware stores make most of their business on week-ends.


Edit: Hm, this might be highly off-topic. Is there another thread that would be more appropriate if this digression ever continues?

edited 29th Feb '16 12:42:20 AM by Medinoc

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#18566: Feb 29th 2016 at 1:34:50 AM

Pharmacies pulling emergency duty like that is also how its done in Germany. *notes*

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#18568: Feb 29th 2016 at 2:24:39 AM

That or just the general politics thread.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
PotatoesRock Since: Oct, 2012
#18569: Mar 2nd 2016 at 2:11:47 AM

(Vox) The EEOC is filing federal level lawsuits against anti-gay discrimination against Scott Medical Health Center and Pallet Companies

The reason this is a big deal is the EEOC, a federal anti-discrimination agency, is running on the logic that the Civil Rights Act and Fair Housing Act both already guarantee protections to homosexuals on the grounds of anti-sex discrimination. And they want to see if Judges are willing to follow the chain of logic.

(However, this wouldn't protect for public accommodations, where there are no anti-sex discrimination provisions.) To note, the EEOC thinks these laws should cover, but they're an Expert Advisory board in the eyes of Judges. So they're filing these lawsuits for proof of concept.

Scalia must be rolling in his grave.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#18572: Mar 2nd 2016 at 6:59:47 AM

And once again, I do not quite understand the intended purpose of sex-segregated bathrooms.

Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#18573: Mar 2nd 2016 at 7:04:25 AM

[up] Depends on the setup. If men's bathrooms have urinals (which take up less space than stalls), it's justified (women's bathrooms won't have urinals). If there are only stalls, there is absolutely no rational reason.

Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#18574: Mar 2nd 2016 at 7:16:30 AM

Even then, you can't really see anything at urinals, so there's no real reason they need to be in a separate room.

hellomoto Since: Sep, 2015
#18575: Mar 2nd 2016 at 7:37:17 AM

I suppose urinals are to keep the toilet bowls clean for sitting on?


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