LGBTQ+ Rights and America

Maybe when there were like, 3 people on Earth.

edited 3rd Aug '12 8:08:43 PM by RTaco

Free speech derail over...Now. There's a new thread on that very topic.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13440476720A94580100&page=1#1

Sorry DS

Being prevented from expanding a business is nothing like being thrown in jail, or being prevented from saying a thing in the first place. I fail to see how any of this violates the first amendment. This claim seems tenuous at best. It's not like they're trying to harass/drive them out of business or something.

As for the GLAAD thing, last I checked that organization doesn't encourage hate speech or preventing anyone from things like getting married or adopting or a variety of other things people view as important to living a full life. I think this is more comparable to all the businesses that pulled their ads from Limbaugh's show, though. He said a stupid ass thing and ending up reaping consequences. Yet he still seems to be going strong, and I predict that Chic-Fil-A will be just fine without Chicago. You say things, other people react to the things that you say. That's life right there. We are not free from consequences.

Then please, come down to the south and teach my legistatures about the First Amendment all the damn time.

States have decided they wanted to be "pro family values", they passed defense of marriage acts. Others have been chosen to be more tolerant. They allow for civil unions.

Right or wrong, moral or immoral. It's happening anyway.

The legality isn't the problem with me. The problem with me is the attitude and the encouragement of it. Laws are hard to change unless you have popular support. And with this sort of polarization along with fundamental Christian conservatives clinging tooth and nail to these very devisive and hateful attitudes, it just concerns me the social repercussions of this.

Attitudes die hard. And these people most of the time leave indoctronated children behind. I see that here around me. My state is so behind I had women with freaking M As trying to tell me that interracial marriage did not exist in the south before the 1970's!

They're not going to willingly accept progress. And they have bent the legal system to accomidate that.

That's the point I was trying to make. People filled with that much hate don't care about other's constitutional rights or what the federal law says because they don't acknowledge LGB Ts as fellow citizens, let alone equals. That attitude is the big problem.

Change the attitude, the laws will come naturally.

@Vericrat: I'll grant you the point.

...good lord, what happened in this thread? I mean, we're talking about hate groups and those who support them, here. Not really a topic deserving of Godwin and his tender mercies.

edited 4th Aug '12 6:46:47 PM by Chalkos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5UKJ0kRiPE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

One of the better discussions I have seen concerning how very influential fundamentalists can encourage this condoning of LGB Ts as others and the consequences that can incur, including building an atmosphere of fear and hatred that could inspire deranged indivduals to commit hate crimes.

This discussion started from the woman that was attacked in her home and had three men carve things like "dyke" in her skin.

Christianity as it is right now isn't against the rich, so I'm not sure what your point is there. Also, their arguments are generally more against the hard core conservatives and extremists who justify their cruelty with their religion values. And that is a horrific thing to have happen. (I do sometimes think Cenk is a little too confrontational, but sometimes that is needed. Personally, I prefer Jennifer Granholme. She's a very reasoned lady.)

Also, who the fuck cares if homosexuality is a biological predisposition? Who the fuck cares if you can choose who you sleep with? It is in no way relevant in regards to the fact that someone attacked and mutilated a fellow human being because they decided that she need "correcting". This kind of abuse is what people want to see stopped, and all that crap you mentioned is a fucking red herring.

Wasn't Kirk Cameron the guy who said homosexuals were a threat to Western civilization a while back? That goes a bit beyond "I disagree with what you do" and more into "Godless Sodomites are the enemy and must be fought back against" territory.

edited 5th Aug '12 7:48:43 PM by Morgikit

I sincerely hope some lunatic doesn't pop up to start defending these assholes or claim "she deserved it".

Religion is used as a tool by those who hate, which is why they specifically go after in this interview. It probably helps that I watch their show on fairly regular basis, so I've got a broader view on how they make their arguments, and on how it relates to their broader position. They go after hard line conservatives a lot, and far more often than not that group includes the ultra conservatives. (Current TV is pretty good in general, so I recommend it to anyone. It's more than the TYT group, so you might find one of the other news hosts to your liking.)

As for my Christianity isn't against the rich: Again, ultra conservatives are also usually quite religious. Their actions as regards people's rights and as regards how they act on other issues not addressed in this topic (the poor, etc.) makes me refute any claims that mainline Christianity has it out for the rich these days. Also, those fucking mega churches are just an embarrassment when and if they get to the parables about greedy men. This is generally off topic though.

Anyway, they don't go after divorce by and large anymore because people don't put up with that shit in this day and age. Divorce has been di-stigmatized to an incredibly huge degree in this country, so if anyone speaks out against that then they're not getting into the news the way the anti-gay activists are. Last I checked no one's going out and mutilating people for divorcing like this woman was attacked.

I'd also like to point out that it was a five minute discussion out of a larger one the entire country is having; they've named plenty of such people in other videos.

Maybe he wouldn't condone it. I don't know what's in his head or heart. But people like him don't do his cause any favors when they make such remarks. I'd like to see less "homosexuals are the enemy" and more "I disagree with what you do, but you have a right to live as you choose without fear of violent retaliation." I do hope folks like Cameron realize that (for the most part) the LGBT community isn't out to "get" them. Like most people, we just want to live our lives in peace.

-facepalm-

The point of this was to dwell on the simple fact that if you have enough influential fundamental conservatives who are so willing to say such disgusting things about homosexuals, it encourages their target audience to see homosexuals as inhuman or others. It makes it more accessible for crazy people to take their anger and insainity against homosexuals because such talking heads have already made an atmosphere and even a culture of acceptance for hatred.

Look at the struggles of the African American community as a parallel. When you have leading politicians calling "Negros" animals, sexual predators, and inhuman, it is not hard to see how instances like Rosebud occured. With that sort of prevailing retoric, mobs did not feel anything against lynchings because by their thinking they were just putting down rabid dogs.

Now in this political climate, where LGB Ts are second class citizens with a drastic limit on their civil rights, combined with a poor education system, poor health care, and the pressures of a recession, history has proven these to be conditions that can increase support for more radical thinking than under more blanced and prosperous situations.

These are the social conditions that can encourage a more violent polarization against minority social groups. Look at how Hispanics are being treated now as compared to just 15 years ago. When the economy was better, their wasn't that much attention to possible illegal immagration and the Latino population. Now they are under a magnifying glass with more occurances of more outright discrimination.

Homosexuals are being treated as second class citizens and with organizations and influential figureheads encouraging a dehumanization and seperation of LGBT citizens from the general population, it is helping to encourage violence against LGBT citizens!

It's just like the rise in murders of doctors who were willing to preform abortions and clinic bombings coinsiding with the initial abortion legislation debates. How many acts of violence occured before the media began spewing the hatred and inhumanity of these "baby killers". A few yes, but it wasn't until major attention was given to these people who labeled abortion doctors and women who had these procedures regardless of reason as "murderers" that the acts of violence pumped up.

Just as there were racist attacks against Muslims previous to 9/11, sure. But in the few months after, there were more murders, vandalism, and anger directed towards Muslims. The disgusting vilifying of Muslims by fundamental conservatives after 9/11 certainly didn't help ease these tensions.

There are always going to be crazy people who flip for no reason. But when you build a culture that encourages division and hateful attitudes to build, you are building an enviroment for more hateful and even aggressive behavior to be encouraged.

Starship...no one is blaming your faith. We are blaming how people use their faiths as weapons against people. Islamic fundamentalists have waged their own war on homosexuals as well. It's just the majority of Americans still identify themselves as Christian and most of the loudest screamers identify themselves as Christian.

And to be fair all the Abrahamic faiths have some real issues with how much of their holy books belong in their government's policies. But my answer to all of them if they are American would be "none".