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Disney's "Maleficent"

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Mort08 Pirate AND writer! from Oklahoma Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Pirate AND writer!
#701: May 27th 2014 at 1:23:05 PM

[up] Because Wicked is popular. For some reason.

As someone who enjoys unabashedly evil villains (to a point), I can't stand that show. The fact that it's launched this trend pisses me off even more.

edited 27th May '14 1:25:49 PM by Mort08

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RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#702: May 27th 2014 at 1:36:23 PM

I love Wicked but MALLIFICENT was not the villain to this with. The original book and musical exploited the ambiguity of the source material because the witch had every reason to want the shoes back and used tactics designed to hinder or scare rather than harm. Mallificent? She calls HERSELF the Mistress of all Evil and calls upon the powers of hell. No moral ambiguity there.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#703: May 27th 2014 at 5:26:33 PM

[up]Oh there's a handwave for that, though that might not be the right trope for it.

What's the trope for really playing up the baddie routine to take advantage of your reputation? And doing it deliberately and intelligently like Maleficent is here, doesn't count with Elphaba, she's half-mad at that point.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
minespatch Since: Sep, 2009
#704: May 27th 2014 at 6:34:36 PM

I just can't stand seeing Jolie smiling in that outfit. Something about Maleficent smiling just rubs me the wrong way if she's not being evil along with the smile(case in point, the original movie).

lancesolous13 from California Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
#705: May 27th 2014 at 6:36:45 PM

[up][up]Maybe not in the book, but I think it counts in the Musical since she's waiting for Fyero's reply that he's alive. As soon as she hears that She drops the evil act.

Hmmmm... Since we hate how terribly this turned out, should we write our own version that does it right? I think I suggested this ages ago but I don't remember the reply.

edited 27th May '14 6:37:05 PM by lancesolous13

I'm a critical person but I'm a nice guy when you get to know me. Now, I should be writing.
Mort08 Pirate AND writer! from Oklahoma Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Pirate AND writer!
#706: May 27th 2014 at 6:59:30 PM

The general reaction was "Yes," but nothing substantial ever came of it.

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lancesolous13 from California Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
#707: May 27th 2014 at 7:11:50 PM

Ok, Let's start then...

Maleficent is our Protagonist and, logically, Stephan/Phillip/Aurora are our Antagonists. But, Maleficent is our Villain and the others are our Heroes.

We have some basic questions to answer here then; Why are we following Maleficent and not the other's in this telling? Are we routing for her cause (???) but not her actions or is she a truly vial creature we love to hate?

Why does Maleficent hate Stephan so much? She wants him to suffer, clearly, but not by killing him. Why? And why so obsessed with finding Aurora if she's already placed the curse on her?

What happened to her wings since she is a fairy, but looks nothing like any of the others? How did Maleficent get such great power and a goblin army?

I'm a critical person but I'm a nice guy when you get to know me. Now, I should be writing.
Mort08 Pirate AND writer! from Oklahoma Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Pirate AND writer!
#708: May 27th 2014 at 9:26:03 PM

At least the soundtrack isn't too shabby.

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minespatch Since: Sep, 2009
#709: May 27th 2014 at 10:57:57 PM

Why does Maleficent hire idiots instead of killing Aurora herself by her own hand or magic? just bugs me

Keybreak (Long Runner)
#710: May 27th 2014 at 11:10:52 PM

She loves spectacle?

You gotta believe me when I scare you away, all that I wish for is that you would stay
Mort08 Pirate AND writer! from Oklahoma Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Pirate AND writer!
#711: May 27th 2014 at 11:18:00 PM

Reviews are starting to come in, and the only thing that seems to be getting consistent praise is Angie's performance. Reminds me that I need to stay off IMDB for a few days. Any hint of positive buzz there is going to get those brats crowing.

edited 27th May '14 11:19:03 PM by Mort08

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edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#712: May 27th 2014 at 11:34:02 PM

Quite a few Frozen comparisons I'm seeing in those.

As in, "Well it's kind of like that, but not quite as good."

edited 27th May '14 11:57:11 PM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
optimusjamie Since: Jun, 2010
#713: May 28th 2014 at 3:49:51 AM

Any word if it's actually worth watching? I'll be seeing it later today and I want to know what I'm in for.

Direct all enquiries to Jamie B Good
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#714: May 28th 2014 at 4:25:41 AM

If it's like Frozen, it is not a good thing in my book...the movie is horrible overrated, but above all, it has a very...strange...understanding what the classic Disney Princesses are about. If you approach Sleeping Beauty with that mind set - it won't work.

And I don't care how good the performance is, a Maleficent who isn't the "Mistress of all evil" in every sense of the word is something I don't want to see. The great thing was always that she has not one bit of remorse in her.

I really hope that the movie bombs...because I don't buy into the idea that it won't change the way we see the original movie when it is a success. It won't "subvert" Maleficent, it will undermine her position as the most evil and most dangerous villain in the Disney Canon.

maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#715: May 28th 2014 at 4:50:32 AM

[up]It'll make her a good guy and turn Sleeping Beauty into the most heavily-criticized cartoon movie Disney's made. Going back AGAIN to Wicked, you know how after that opened, people started to really be vocal about not liking Dorothy? I expect the same thing to happen here.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#716: May 28th 2014 at 5:14:00 AM

I don't think this movie will be nearly popular enough to do that. Aurora is already one of the most criticized Disney Princesses simply because she's a non-entity in her own movie.

edited 28th May '14 5:15:04 AM by RhymeBeat

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#717: May 28th 2014 at 5:21:14 AM

[up][up] The difference is that "Wicked" isn't made out of the thin air...I know, Americans tend to love "The Wizard of Oz", but it is actually a dumbed down version of a very complex book series, which isn't really for the black and white world the movie presented...so in this special case, "Wicked" is actually reminding the audience of the actual source text, and I can behind that, even though I don't consider Dorothy the one responsible for anything in either version and don't understand the hate towards her. Sleeping Beauty on the other hand is his own take on an old story and is the movie which created Maleficent in the first place - nowhere in the movie is anything which allows an alternate character interpretation (unlike with the wicked witch who actually does have a grievance considering that her sister died and Glinda gave away her shoes), but what is worse, it goes totally against everything which makes the character so great. It is not a small feat to stand at the very top of all the Disney villains, especially not for a villain from a movie which is pretty old. Nowadays everything older than the Disney Renaissance tends to considered "not as good" by the general audience, but not Maleficent. She left her mark on all the Disney "big" villains which came after her. Undermining the very thing which makes her so great (being a representation of evil) makes no sense to me.

[up] Aurora is still considered the most beautiful of the Disney Princesses, but the point is less what the movie will do to her and more what it will do to Maleficent.

edited 28th May '14 5:22:16 AM by Swanpride

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#718: May 28th 2014 at 5:27:33 AM

The book series is complex but the first book The Wonderful Wizard of Oz' gave the Wicked Witch more actually evil traits, like being a slaver. Also one of the rules Baum established later is that only wicked people die in Oz, and TW Wot W was obviously dead. She comes off as less evil in the movie do to her not explicitly owning slaves, and the fact that the movie merged the Good Witch of the North and South it created a "Glinda" which looked like she had an alterior motive for setting Dorthy against the witch.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#719: May 28th 2014 at 6:06:14 AM

[up]There are a lot of continuity errors in the book series, especially with the first book, since it was originally not planed to be a series. But even there the idea that someone is more or less than he seems to be is already established, though it is established in the wizard himself. I just don't see the leap that other aspects of Oz are not what they seem to be as such a big one considering this "twist".

With Sleeping Beauty on the other hand the whole movie is about symbolism, and about the fight of "good" vs. "evil" - with Maleficent presenting "evil". There is really nothing to latch on.

Never mind that what was a somewhat new idea in "Wicked" (somewhat, it's hardly not the first time someone reinterprets a known story), has become a tired cliché by now...at least there we agree, the concept has to stop. Now. Before we loose more terrifying villains to it.

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#720: May 28th 2014 at 7:54:59 AM

Yeah, right now I would give this idea a rest unless you have a source material where it REALLY makes sense AND you've got a really good script behind it. I don't know of any examples of the former, so I doubt any more of these will be good.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#721: May 28th 2014 at 9:51:17 AM

Once again, the leaks from this movie serve only to infuriate me. Just look what they've done to Aurora. Yes, it's a personality, but that personality is apparently "stupid as rocks".

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
kalel94 Rascal King from Dragonstone Since: Feb, 2011
Rascal King
#722: May 28th 2014 at 10:28:19 AM

And it's ironic that they're making that a "joke" at Aurora's expense, when by all accounts Maleficent actually does end up becoming her "fairy godmother" of sorts.

The last hurrah? Nah, I'd do it again.
maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#723: May 28th 2014 at 10:31:56 AM

That's what pisses me off.

That, and the reactions I'm dreading from the boppers who see this and then watch Sleeping Beauty and then say it's lies or something.

And to those worrying like me, according to this review, this movie is everything we were afraid of.

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#724: May 28th 2014 at 10:39:04 AM

I dunno. Again, I've never been a huge fan of the original story, so I'm probably not the right guy to voice his opinion on the matter, but for what it's worth, I like to consider this film an alternate telling of he story. Sure, the advertising calls it the "true account of the events", but that's just marketing hype. Think of this as being a "what-if" scenario.

Also, it is currently getting a positive reception from critics, at least according to Rotten Tomatoes.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#725: May 28th 2014 at 11:00:17 AM

Eh, it's just 12 reviews so far. Man of Steel and Amazing Spider-Man were both initially in mid-80s for a while before they suddenly dropped to 50s.


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