Scarface worship (grumbling at impressionable teens)

What gets me are Scarface fanboys who think because they rented that movie at an early age and never outgrew the "gangsta" mindset, that everything Tony Montana and his cronies do are just massively awesome. Thankfully, when I later asked my brother about why he liked GTA: Vice City, I pointed out that that game exploited Scarface worship like Graceland exploits Elvis worship. He just shook his head, and admitted that it looked so cool at the time, and he was sucked in by it.

But yeah, Scarface worship is something that creeps me out from time to time, especially when Scarface fans are getting younger and younger each decade since the film's release.

It's odd that Cannibal Holocaust didn't scare me as much as the implications of the early teenager years of my generations being tainted with Scarface worship, just like the next generation of teens will be.

It's really disturbing to me what this movie does to young minds, it doesn't make them go out and become drug lords, but it makes them WISH they could be gangsters/drug lords. This is the mindset one of my oldest friends got into, and he got in with the wrong crowd (Jersey Shore type mindset adapted to Australia, not, you know, actual gangsters).

So as a result I'm a bit cautious about approaching this movie, because ever since Michael Bolton's new single with The Lonely Island I've been obsessed with trying to locate my DVD of this movie so I can watch it, and put my fears to rest.

That said I'm a bit concerned that successive generations of today's youth continue to misinterpret this movie as an excuse to have a gangster/womaniser fantasy persona for themselves.

Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears

Anybody who thinks Tony is some kind of ideal role model is an idiot. Especially since at the end of the film, he gets his ass blown into the next world while high on cocaine. Yeah, there's somebody you should look up to.

It's an interesting argument - could watching the film at an impressionable age make you want to be a real gangster? Probably only if you were heading in that direction anyway because of your environment and personality. Watching lots of gangster movies never turned me into a criminal, but then I wasn't growing up in some tough 'hood surrounded by drug dealers or with a difficult family situation.

It's worrying that so many real criminals do seem to use Scarface or Goodfellas to puff up their macho self-image, but as you say, if you seriously think ending up like Tony Montana or even Henry Hill is a good thing, you're mentally pretty screwed-up anyway.

"Well, it's a lifestyle"

I think Tony's ambition, guts and willpower are pretty admirable, that's what teens look up to. Er, I would hope they do, as opposed to the other stuff.

I think the line of reasoning is "copying Scarface is awesome as long as I don't fuck up and shoot Sosa's henchman or develop a weird fixation on my sister".

I've noticed this a lot, considering I'm still in the age group where kids look up to the film and eponymous Tony Montana as some sort of idol. Personally, I think it's just a form of teenage angst and false idolization that most kids and teens go through during that age. I can't see too many kids falling into the same type of world with Tony Montana's ideologies when they grow up, unless they're mentally ill and extremely determined. I've heard people say how "awesome" Tony is, but, I haven't heard a soul say that they wanted to be like him. I think they realized that getting blasted in the back while on an ungodly amount of cocaine isn't the best conclusion to life, and one they didn't want to emulate.

I agree that Tony's ambition and will are something to be admired, but, definitely not his motives or morals, except the whole be respectful to your family, women, and children thing, I suppose.

Frankly, I'm more concerned that they find an above-average crime thriller to be their own personal Citizen Kane.

edited 21st May '11 1:20:34 PM by HerrKman

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

I saw Scarface at 13 and loved it. But I think of it as "drugs will fuck you up" movie and see it as intended: the rise and fall of a kingpin.

More Buscemi at http://forum.reelsociety.com/

The hip hop community is the biggest Misaimed Fandom for this movie I have ever seen.

ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.

What about Southies and every Boston movie ever made?

More Buscemi at http://forum.reelsociety.com/

^^ Why? Tony Montana is essentially the embodiment of everything they aspire to be. The drug addiction and violent death are simply part of the territory for them.

Hell, if Tony Montana were black, he'd have been made into a victim of the system.

edited 21st May '11 4:08:13 PM by Wicked223

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!

I'm just tired of those kiosks of cheesy portrait recreations of scenes from the film and their omnipresence in American malls :P More seriously, this has bugged me for awhile too, and I haven't even seen the movie.

I'll turn your neocortex into a flowerpot!

So I guess that to a lot of rappers, this is their CITIZEN COCAINE? :D

Hell Hasn't Earned My Tears

'''HYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGHHH!

ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.

Re: Citizen Cocaine: I think it's that Scarface is a lot more meme-worthy than The Godfather. The Godfather is definitely better, but Scarface is more fun to watch.

I suppose all gangster movies follow the same basic story, it's the spectacle that varies.

And the (corrupted) American Dream/"small guy beats the system and gets rich" thing. It is a rags to riches story, except with lots of lawbreaking, and the "hero" doesn't win, not like Rockefeller and Co.

edited 21st May '11 8:47:48 PM by melloncollie

Something similar happened with The Godfather. A lot of people thought "Hey, those guys look stylish with their suits and parties", and the vengeance parts also tuned in with their sense of justice.

Of course, in reality, the Corleone leaders are horrible criminals and murderers, and Michael suffers from being a controlling douchebag.

edited 22nd May '11 5:27:02 AM by Scardoll

Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.

Good Fellas.

Better than both.

As for these movies making someone into a gangster, that's not neccesarily true.

Saying that is assuming that the world follows the "I think, therefore I am." model.

In truth, it is "How I choose to interpert thinks makes me who I am."

Your memories do not determine who you are. How you interpret them does.

Scarface was the perfect learning tool for gangsters on how to be pwned by THE GREAT MEN AND WOMEN THAT ENFORCE THE LAW IN AMERICA!!!

UN JOUR JE SERAI DE RETOUR PRÈS DE TOI

I grew up in what some call the hood, but I moved out and haven't looked back. I'm usually intrigued by criminal movies, just to see how criminal organizations work. I've never finished Scarface through because the movie just upsets me from the start when the supposed Cuban is both pale and has an Italian accent. He isn't very convincing to me either, nor do I find him likable in the slightest. I still have a pair of Scarface pajamas, but they were cheap, I'm not a fan of the film.

Good Fellas is another one that I hate, but that has less to do with quality and more with the fact the guy was a total bastard. He had the easy life, relatively speaking for a criminal, but he went and ruined it. All he had to do was what he was told and the mob would have made him comfortable. So he screws up his own operation, snitches out all his friends and gets off free with a movie deal, and then complains about it. I've rarely felt murderous toward anyone I've never even met before, in fact he may have been the first.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

The hip-hop community is arguably built on Misaimed Fandom these days. Tupac and Biggie may or may not be spinning in their graves right now.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I feel this way about Army Of Darkness as well. Ash's assholery isn't very nice, but it takes on a whole new level when it comes to women. Consider:

• Ash shows up. Princess believes that he killed her brother.
• Ash is an asshole to her. Princess makes him a cloak.
• Ash continues to be an asshole, but expects her to fuck him. Princess fucks him.
• Princess gets captured and raped by the Big Bad. Ash doesn't give much of a shit.
• Princess shows up at big battle. Ash kills her, doesn't give much of a shit.
• Ash destroys the Big Bad. Princess is returned to normal.

There's just too many Unfortunate Implications in the female love interest becoming a demonic hellspawn after being raped and then turning back to normal after the rapist is killed. Not to mention Ash just being a general sort of asshat to everyone, the princess included. I was trying to enjoy Army of Darkness, but it's misogyny kept kept slapping me around the face and I really couldn't feel comfortable watching it.

The reason it's kind of a big deal is that it's held up alongside the likes of Aliens and Jurassic Park as one of those films that continues to capture the imagination of young men and inform masculine ideals.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

Real life Corleones are horrible, I imagine, but onscreen they don't really do anything all that bad (the only things I can think of off the top of my head is Woltz's horse and the murdered prostitute in Part II). Well, I suppose murder is bad no matter who the victim is, but the people the Corleones kill are generally assholes. And of course, their whole schtick is to protect the family above all else; I don't know about you guys, but that's the sort of thing I can see my own parents agreeing with.

Michael's behavior doesn't seem so bad if you're Asian.

^ I didn't think anyone genuinely looked up to Ash as a role model...? o__O

edited 22nd May '11 9:30:50 PM by melloncollie

I hope not. >:/

edited 22nd May '11 9:37:27 PM by MadassAlex

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

I mean, I figured it was just that comedic sociopathy thing, not that you're supposed to take it seriously. Right? Right?

One can only hope. One can only hope. Onecanonlyhopeonlyhopeonlyhopeonlyhope

Maybe it was especially weird because I didn't see Evil Dead 2... but in the first film, Ash seemed like a pretty cool dude. It was kinda jarring.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

Ash is largely the same in Evil Dead 2, though he's a little braver.

I've never met anyone who seriously looks up to Ash.

I've got two guns pointed west and a broken compass.

Ash is meant to be a dick in Army of Darkness. That's how Sam Raimi wrote the character, possibly as a way to create more humor.

More Buscemi at http://forum.reelsociety.com/