If this Trope is too close to the ones you mention, which it isn't, then you must also acknowledge that Accidental Nightmare Fuel and High Octane Nightmare Fuel must be merged with plain Nightmare Fuel. And if you did you would have far more of a case to present (Hell, I'd agree with you about the second one). It is very clear that this Trope is different to all the ones you mention.
edited 26th May '11 12:56:59 PM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.But this sounds like another way of summarizing "Idiot Plot". I'm being honest with you; that's what an Idiot Plot would be.
If a character or characters could potentially do something that can advance the story straight to its conclusion but don't, then you would have an Idiot Plot. In such examples of that trope, the story's creator is making his characters behave illogically and contradictory to the narrative itself, like refusing to do things that can lead them straight to their goal, just so that the story doesn't reach a quick and early ending.
edited 26th May '11 1:21:36 PM by SeanMurrayI
You make it sound similar but it really, really isn't. I'm not trying to mislead you either. Idiot Plot can't really be invoked unless the plot runs on large amounts of stupid.
This is another example of Idiot Plot:
- The Green Goblin is being hailed as a hero, and is now basically in charge of America's self defense. Just to be clear, Norman Osborn was outed months ago. He was convicted of mass murder. He strafed his own arraignment hearing with pumpkin bombs on live television. He is known to be dangerously bipolar, and that's when he's on his medication. He's the single most infamous example in Marvel of why superheroes need secret identities, given that he's the first MU villain to murder a hero's supporting cast * coughGwenStacycough* . This. Man. Was. Given. Every. Registered. Superhero. On. File. And. Under. His. Authority. Legally. This. Is. Madness.
edited 26th May '11 1:23:29 PM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.We do not define tropes by their examples. We define them by their descriptions.
Again, the opening description defines Idiot Plot as, "...[A] term for a plot that hangs together only because the main characters behave like idiots. A single intelligent move or question by any of the characters, and all problems would be resolved."
Characters suddenly refusing to follow leads to their own goals for no logical reason given in the narrative just to do other nonsense would be an example of the type of idiocy that would meet the basis for establishing an Idiot Plot.
edited 26th May '11 1:28:58 PM by SeanMurrayI
This is not Idiot Plot.
So, let me see if I can get Bugger The Plot right: the protagonist ignores all plot threads that leads to a conclusion.
That doesn't sound like Idiot Plot to me. The protagonist doesn't have to be carrying around a ball to do that, and Idiot Plot only works when more than one person is holding the ball.
Also, someone needs to fix to The Redemption Of Althalus example. The bold and cap locks reflect badly on the page.
edited 26th May '11 1:36:23 PM by chihuahua0
And again, they are nothing alike. You are simply trying to match this up to a trope and it doesn't seem to matter what one.
Stupidity is not a prerequisite of this trope. Often the character will acknowledge the path they must take and then not take it. Even if it was this would still qualify as a sub-trope and therefore be valid.
Tropes I have created.But what kind of character on any kind of quest or mission just simply ignores it upon reaching anything that can take the character to his goal? Only a fucking idiot. You're telling me that a genius character (or someone halfway sensible) on a mission to complete some task is just gonna get sidetracked for no apparent reason in the narrative when he gets to a point where crucial progress can be made or the quest itself can be quickly completed?
edited 26th May '11 1:42:19 PM by SeanMurrayI
And what kind of Troper tries and fails to compare a trope to half a dozen compeatly unrelated articles? You are being belligerent.
edited 26th May '11 1:41:06 PM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.Sean, calm down.
Let me use an example to show the difference between the two:
- Bugger The Plot: Bob is the protagonist. He finds a message from the future near a time machine calling for help. Instead of following the call right away, Bob gets side-tracked and takes the time machine to other places for a few episodes, since there's no rush.
- Idiot Plot: Bob is the protagonist. He finds a message from the future near a time maching calling for help. Instead of following the call right away, Bob decides to go to his friend Carol to show it to her. However, Carol is an antagonist, but due to carting around the Villain Ball, she fails to kill Bob and take the time machine. So Bob decides to go to Dan...
See the difference?
edited 26th May '11 1:44:22 PM by chihuahua0
Why wouldn't those "few episodes" not be a Filler Arc?
edited 26th May '11 1:45:22 PM by SeanMurrayI
Maybe there're not Filler. Maybe it's a Monster of the Week show with a Myth Arc. But instead of going directly to the source of the call, Bob just decides to go off on some adventrues.
The point is, this isn't Idiot Plot. At most, Bob has to have the Idiot Ball, but in this case, he doesn't.
You're welcome.
Clarifying the trope is the top prioty right now,
So, Bugger The Plot is not:
- Padding: Whole sequences can't really be Padding, or they'll be Filler:
- Filler: The suppose "filler" could actually be Monster of the Week fare, or a sub-plot unrelated to what would bring around the climax.
- Idiot Plot: Bugger The Plot doesn't rely on Idiot Balls to happen. The protagonist could just choose to ignore what could bring around the climax, especially if he doesn't have to do it right away. Also, other characters may just be oblivious.
edited 26th May '11 2:04:36 PM by chihuahua0
Thanks chihuahua, you are explaining this a lot better than I am. I think I'm going to clarify the Trope a bit.
(Edit)
Ok, I've sorted out most of it, is that better?
edited 26th May '11 2:50:49 PM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.Argh, it was so obvious I missed it. What about if we called the Trope: Plot Detour? ![]()
edited 26th May '11 2:50:08 PM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.From the opening of Filler: "Filler episodes are entries in a generally continuous serial that are unrelated to the main plot, don't significantly alter the relations between the characters, and generally serve only to take up space."
Say some episodes of a series with a Myth Arc are Monster of the Week format. If those Monster of the Week (or "Adventure Of The Week") episodes "are generally unrelated to the main plot and don't significantly alter the relations between characters", they would still be Filler.
The Monster of the Week trope is mentioned several times on that page as the general type of "filler" employed by shows when not airing Myth Arc episodes. Potential to be used as Filler is brought up in the description on the Monster of the Week page itself, too.
edited 26th May '11 5:38:21 PM by SeanMurrayI
You realise Filler is ONE possible result of this trope. It is not the trope itself, it is not the only result, and it would not be broad enough to cover this trope even if it was.
HOW many tropes have you tried to compare this one to now? Your comparisons don't make any sense. One trope cannot, simultaneously, be identical to five dozen others. This is getting really ridiculous.
edited 27th May '11 4:31:23 AM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.So what other possibilities is this supposed to cover then?
And why should Filler be one of them when that entire concept already has its own page?
edited 27th May '11 4:39:40 AM by SeanMurrayI
It doesn't cover filler. It results in filler.
Other possibilities being Padding, episodes that can sit anywhere in continuity such as Monster of the Week. Etc. There is no set result.
edited 27th May '11 4:41:04 AM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.^ "Episodes that can sit anywhere in a continuity" is already covered by Filler. They're stories non-essential to the main Myth Arc episodes that can be watched in any order.
If Padding is another possible result, then those same results can go on the Padding page.
edited 27th May '11 4:43:35 AM by SeanMurrayI
You realise we are right back to having only twelve tropes on the entire site? THIS IS NOT ABOUT FILLER.
edited 27th May '11 4:44:47 AM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.No, we're not. In fact, we'd already have two tropes in this instance if we got rid of this one, where you apparently want to catalog Padding and Filler on one page.
EDIT: How can you say this trope isn't about filler when you say that's what the trope results in?
edited 27th May '11 4:45:37 AM by SeanMurrayI
Why don't you go and combine padding and filler if they are essentially the same thing?
edited 27th May '11 4:47:38 AM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.
Crown Description:

(0k, I'm back, it seems to have stopped now)
No it is not. You are ignoring the entire premise of this trope. Here it is from the article:
—-
"Not to be confused with The Call Knows Where You Live, where the Hero simply isn’t strong enough to face The Evil, doesn’t think they are worthy, or flees from it. The problem here is quite simple: The hero is under strict instructions from the writer to completely and utterly ignore ANY thread that would lead them to the end of the story or series ahead of schedule. Even if it is so obvious they are ignoring the main plot that they feel the need to point it out!
For this trope to come into effect, the hero must actively, deliberately, even belligerently, ignore ANYTHING that would lead him or her directly to the climax of the story. Cracks in the universe? Child in danger? Mysterious messages? Sod that! This Hero has better things to do. Like have a completely different adventure. Or play badminton."
edited 26th May '11 12:55:33 PM by Hadashi
Tropes I have created.