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drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#51: May 20th 2011 at 7:32:32 PM

@Bobby: good idea. Make sure the text is large, and flashes. If it isn't huge and shiny the geeks might miss it.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
kashchei Since: May, 2010
#52: May 20th 2011 at 7:33:32 PM

Eric, do you really think such fundamental changes would address any of the issues mentioned in the OP?

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
SavageOrange tilkau from vi Since: Mar, 2011
tilkau
#53: May 20th 2011 at 7:34:00 PM

[up][up][up][up]

the best solution would probably be to redo the forum so it supported hardcoded replies, making derails impossible.
I can't even tell if you're being facetious.

edited 20th May '11 7:34:33 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#54: May 20th 2011 at 7:38:21 PM

@ DS: I'll see what I can do. evil grin

@ Eric: I already have mod powers here, actually. Nevermind, you meant OPs in general, right? Yeah, don't see that happening, sorry.

merge YF... & Old Folks' Home

I think Eddie and Maddy might throttle me, and deservedly so, if I suggested something like that again.

“Off-Topic Conversations” with a NEIN WÜNDERPOSTEN rule that requires every post to have a point in mind.

This is pretty much the OFH.

edited 20th May '11 7:40:37 PM by BobbyG

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drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#55: May 20th 2011 at 7:42:30 PM

@Merger: Screw that. I like Old Folks' Home the way it is. We split it off for a reason.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
EricDVH Since: Jan, 2001
#56: May 20th 2011 at 9:00:31 PM

Savage Orange: I can't even tell if you're being facetious.
Nope. On something like USENET, for instance, it's impossible to derail a conversation, since it just branches off into its own little thing, complete with a title change, with each obviously offtopic post. USENET did have one disadvantage compared to flat threads though, which is that it didn't support replying to multiple similar posts at once (merging branches, essentially,) but I think that's a minor sacrifice. It also made megathreads MUCH easier to navigate.

Eric,

edited 20th May '11 9:06:35 PM by EricDVH

kashchei Since: May, 2010
#57: May 20th 2011 at 9:02:24 PM

I don't wish to speak for anybody else, but I do suspect that tropers on the whole are happy with the current interface and would not support such drastic changes.

edited 20th May '11 9:07:27 PM by kashchei

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#58: May 20th 2011 at 9:03:21 PM

Well, it's not happening, I'm afraid. It's certainly not within my powers to do something like that. If you want to propose something like that to Eddie, go ahead, but I was rather hoping those kinds of extreme measures wouldn't be necessary.

ninja'd

edited 20th May '11 9:03:40 PM by BobbyG

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EricDVH Since: Jan, 2001
#59: May 20th 2011 at 9:06:51 PM

Bobby G: This is pretty much the OFH.
OFH seems to be, much like the other two fora I mentioned, dominated by megathreads. What I liked about IJBM was that conversation moved quickly and threads tended to die off at a reasonable pace instead of becoming unstoppable, impenetrable monstrosities.

Eric,

BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#60: May 20th 2011 at 9:12:37 PM

Did you know that IJBM still exists? It's no longer run by TV Tropes and is considerably smaller but no less shitpost-prone than before, but it's still there. Of the three you mentioned, IJAM isn't nearly as megathread prone as OFH or YF, but it's hardly a place to hold debates, so I guess it's not what you're looking for.

But this is off topic.

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Wulf Gotta trope, dood! from Louisiana Since: Jan, 2001
Gotta trope, dood!
#61: May 20th 2011 at 9:43:20 PM

Bit of a Thread Hop, though I have read the whole thing— It seems less like we have an echochamber going on, and more that we have a handful of folks who have a few pet issues that they deviate really far from the norm on. As a result, either get a Blue-and-Orange Morality thing going on, where no one seems to understand how they could hold that opinion, or they're ostensibly on one "side," but they're so far on that side that even those guys don't agree with 'em.

That set of guidelines, however, looks good. I wouldn't suggest splitting this along serious and 'fun', although it may be worthwhile to have a "Current Events" forum to talk about things in the news, and a main OTC for general "hey, how do you feel about this issue?" kind of stuff.

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?
DrunkGirlfriend from Castle Geekhaven Since: Jan, 2011
#62: May 20th 2011 at 10:18:40 PM

It seems less like we have an echochamber going on, and more that we have a handful of folks who have a few pet issues that they deviate really far from the norm on

And the other problem is that they seem to work their pet issues into threads that have nothing to do with it. Yes, I'm a bit of a Single-Issue Wonk when it comes to religious freedoms, but I don't wander into a thread on, say, vegans and start coloring my arguments with it.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#63: May 20th 2011 at 10:32:56 PM

Thread hop; locate problem posters, and ban them.

"Problem posters" defined as what DG is talking about.

edited 20th May '11 10:33:54 PM by EnglishIvy

Wulf Gotta trope, dood! from Louisiana Since: Jan, 2001
Gotta trope, dood!
#64: May 20th 2011 at 10:37:06 PM

Not sure I advocate anything that extreme- they spice up the place, after all. Definitely warn them about their behavior, though that probably goes on enough behind the scenes.

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#65: May 20th 2011 at 10:44:41 PM

Yeah I wouldn't go as far as banning people with a Single Issue Wonk whom work it into every thread, but more warn them, and try to get them to not insert said issue in every thread.

After all, differing views make for interesting discussion. At least for me, it's always interesting to see other's views even if I don't agree with them.

EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#66: May 20th 2011 at 10:45:14 PM

Doing what moderators are, by definition, supposed to do is no extreme.

Mark, there are numerous examples of Single Issue Wonks who were warned about their behavior, and either never changed, or who cleaned up their acts for a day or two at most before going back to their old habits. That method simply does not work.

edited 20th May '11 10:48:32 PM by EnglishIvy

Usht Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard from an arbitrary view point. Since: Feb, 2011
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
#67: May 20th 2011 at 10:49:30 PM

Yeah, but banning should only be done if the person makes a major infraction, like posting blatant pornography or repeatedly and aggressively attacking other posters. If anything, I'd say rewriting the rules to emphasize that you should point out to the problem poster what he or she is doing wrong, point towards the rules, and suggest making a new topic if necessary. If the poster continues to infringe, just ignore. Really, I just think this forum needs a slight change in attitude, more than anything.

edited 20th May '11 10:50:18 PM by Usht

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.
Wulf Gotta trope, dood! from Louisiana Since: Jan, 2001
Gotta trope, dood!
#68: May 20th 2011 at 10:49:52 PM

*shrug* I guess. I guess it's more that I consider most people here, if not friends, interesting people, and would rather not see them banned. For instance, I like seeing Mark Von Lewis inject alcohol into a conversation. It's entertaining, even if it were technically against the rules.

edited 20th May '11 10:50:42 PM by Wulf

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?
EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#69: May 20th 2011 at 10:52:57 PM

There's a vast difference between drunkposting outside of OTC, and posting about, say, how all governments are turning into Big Brother and we should become anarchists, even in threads where that has nothing to do with anything. That gets disruptive really fast.

edited 20th May '11 10:53:41 PM by EnglishIvy

MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#70: May 20th 2011 at 10:55:56 PM

I guess English. Makes sense as some people don't change.

And it's not so much I inject alcohol into conversations - I just add a shot or two. tongue

edited 20th May '11 10:56:57 PM by MarkVonLewis

drunkscriblerian Street Writing Man from Castle Geekhaven Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
#71: May 20th 2011 at 10:56:36 PM

I like seeing Mark Von Lewis inject alcohol into a conversation. It's entertaining, even if it were technically against the rules.

I like seeing it too. It means the young padawan has learned his lessons well.

Which does, ironically enough, bring up an important point; When does harmless exuberance become harmful intent? At what point do we smack down irrelevant posters instead of congratulate them?

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#72: May 20th 2011 at 10:58:08 PM

I'd say if they aren't even remotely related to the topic at hand. Like if it was about taxes and someone was talking about taxes from Sim City.

If someone's so far afield they are grocery shopping in Victoria's Secret, I'd call that off topic.

Usht Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard from an arbitrary view point. Since: Feb, 2011
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
#73: May 20th 2011 at 10:58:25 PM

And it's not so much I inject alcohol into conversations - I just add a shot or two.

For you.

EDIT: [up][up]Good question because even a light hearted joke can be taken the wrong way during a particularly heated discussion. Perhaps when only when it doesn't directly involve another poster?

edited 20th May '11 10:59:40 PM by Usht

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.
BobbyG vigilantly taxonomish from England Since: Jan, 2001
vigilantly taxonomish
#74: May 21st 2011 at 3:57:01 AM

My thoughts: It is vital that we draw a distinction between Single-Issue Wonk types derailing threads and people with unpopular views stating their opinions on a thread and being pounced on by the majority for it. Only in the former case is it the fault of the person with the unpopular opinion, and the latter is precisely the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say that this board is generally hostile towards non-majority viewpoints here. I also agree with Mark that differing views make for more interesting discussions.

So, here's an example scenario of how things could go. Suppose That Troper really doesn't like the Bush administration. In fact, he thinks they're so dreadful that he really, honestly holds them responsible for just about everything, from global warming to those moronic viewers failing to appreciate his favourite television show.

So, say tropers are having a discussion about Finnish politics and That Troper comes in and starts arguing that the Bush administration are directly or indirectly responsible for the True Finns' victory, something which makes That Troper very angry. The worst case scenario here is that the thread is derailed for pages and pages as tropers try to argue that no, this has nothing to do with the Bush administration while That Troper insists that it does. We want to avoid this.

Under the proposed guidelines, That Troper is required to actually have an argument to support his claims when they are contested. If he doesn't, he will be asked to drop the subject or leave the thread altogether. This will not prevent him from making the argument if he has an actual point to make, but I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing; this is an opportunity for a reasonable and potentially interesting discussion. If, however, this discussion moves away from the original topic, as has a tendency to happen, then those participating will be asked to take it to a new thread (any objections to adding that to the guidelines, by the way?).

That way, That Troper is not punished or discriminated against for having strong opinions regarding the malevolent influence of the Bush Administration, but at the same time, is not permitted to derail every thread on the board (or indeed any thread) in his efforts to explain how they were ultimately responsible for Russian violence against homosexuals, Cubs' poor performance against Red Sox yesterday, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.

Now, regarding jokes, I don't like the idea of prohibiting or restricting them with any kind of rule. Sounds a little anti-fun. Maybe we could simply include a reminder to apply the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement when making them, and to bear in mind that it can be difficult to read intent over the Internet?

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BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#75: May 21st 2011 at 7:11:28 AM

I'd just like to plainly and clearly place my vote for no changes. I like OTC just the way it is, I don't want to see it split, and I'm actually ok with short-distance derails. Mega-threads don't bother me hugely, nor do multiple threads on the same topic*

, and I've got no complaints against the various mods that hang out here* .

Of course, my other usual forum has a moderator that only bans spammers, and it's full of name-calling and insults, so perhaps I'm used to standing around a forum in an asbestos suit watching the fireworks. tongue

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

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