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A Matriarchy Culture Design

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renovalino Reno from Hong Kong Since: Jul, 2010
Reno
#1: May 15th 2011 at 9:46:57 PM

Hello fellow tropers. Recently I am working on a matriarchy system for a culture in my novel (which is written horribly in a non-English language and usually get stuck in Development Hell, so I probably would not go further in that subject). Since there are not many matriarchies in Real Life (and, according to the Matriarchy page of this wiki, most of the examples are not unambiguous), I think it might be better to see if there are problems in the system so I can fix. I would also like to see how others (especially those from other parts of the globe) see this culture. :p

The culture is called Āditya, and has a Flanderized Hindu Mythology overtone of it, though it is more for Rule of Cool than any real reference.

  • Society

The basic unit of the society is clan, which is a big family group that is formed mostly by descendants of the clan leader, who is usually the elder woman in the clan. Other than the daughters and sons (and theirs) of the leader, people from other clan might be invited into the clan (the closest equivalent of marriage in this culture). The prime reason of doing so is due to a lack of manpower (for men) or in need of someone to pass the lineage (for women), though political "marriage" also exists in the noble and royal clans.

There are division of labour within the clan, where men are usually farmers, labourers, soldiers and other labour-intensive works, while women are usually responsible for administration, cleric, commander and other mind-oriented work. The early advance of Ādityan culture separated workforce and power via currency, trading and such, preventing the rise of a patriarchy within the mainstream culture. The early formation of an unified empire, and the rising need to develop a bureaucracy, women, who are usually the one who know how to write, fortified their social position with it, with the reasoning that women are more clam, while men could drove the empire down the toilet via their tenancy to go Hot-Blooded.

  • Sex and Marriage

As noted above, there are no marriage of our kind in this culture, with the closest equivalent as inviting someone into the clan. Since the lineage does not pass from father to son, and the paternal heritage is rarely seen as important, open polygam and polyamory is regarded as the norm of the culture, and sexual intercourse is seen as a good thing religiously (see below).

While it has its holiness, sex is not seen as a very important decision that is not easily given. When one is matured enough and decided that she is old enough to give birth to children (usually several months after the first menstruation, and virgin after 20 is somehow stepping into Christmas Cake domain), one is allowed (or even encouraged, usually in conservative/short-in-labour clans) to make out with any men she (and he) wants, and actively try to get pregnant.

STD would be quite a problem in such society, but with such a system working for millennia to work out the natural immunity against those, and some help from the local herbs, STD Immunity became a common thing.

  • Religion

The religion of Āditya is called Shivaism or Shivadharma, after the main god of the pantheon, Shiva. It (gender is irrelevant to such a superior being) did not create mankind though, as it sacrificed itself to create order from chaos of the world. The one who created humanity is Āditi, the goddess of life, water and some other stuffs. She created humanity and sacrificing her entity (a common theme of the religion, with most gods doing so in some point) and fused it with one from Shiva, creating souls.

This process is usually interpreted as the Trope Maker of sexual intercourse, and human sex is to recreate a similar process and try to refine the spirit of the gods to enlighten themselves (and possibly [[Warhammer40000 beat the crap out of chaos]]).

As a result, sexual intercourse is seen as the best thing after sliced bread (or the local equivalent, which is hard enough to penetrate armour when thrown hard enough), and making out is the moral thing to do.

edited 15th May '11 9:47:45 PM by renovalino

blueharp Since: Dec, 1969
#2: May 15th 2011 at 10:00:17 PM

Well, I think you might be hand-waving the farming together just a bit, there's actually a lot of skill involved, not to mention the processing. There's also a lot of other types of jobs you don't seem to have covered, like tool-makers and traders.

The sexual promiscuity leading to disease immunity seems a bit of a stretch. If you don't want to have STD's feature in what you're writing, just don't do it, it'll be better than what seems to be a forced explanation.

edited 15th May '11 10:01:18 PM by blueharp

renovalino Reno from Hong Kong Since: Jul, 2010
Reno
#3: May 15th 2011 at 11:49:57 PM

Blueharp: Well, while I am quite certain STD would not be present in my novel, I still think it would be kind of a issue, especially to those who want to make a quick out abusing our culture. tongue

For the disease immunity, I took notes from a particular book by Jared Diamond, in which he stated that Indian Native American got struck hard by disease brought by Europeans, while Europe didn't get decimated by American disease due to Europeans being lived with domesticated animals for a long time while the Americans didn't.

...... Come to think of it, it is indeed a bit of a stretch. I guess I just pretend we have some herb form of STD elixir and call it a day. Modern marvels such as condom (in the time of the novel, we have rubber form of it, which is also good for prevent rifle barrel being wettened by rain) should help us to prevent a STD pandemic.

For the farming part, my major concern is that with male being the dominant source of workforce for farming and other essential industry, they would gather enough power to subvert the matriarchy. A solution provided by one of my friend suggest that a early boom of the culture with the concept of private property and money can disjoint the workforce and power i.e. making money the new master.

As a general rule of thumb, work that require mental skills more than physical skills are traditionally women works, while hard labour (farming, soldiering, and persumably tool-making?) are for men. However, I think the most important part is still the aforementioned division of workforce and political power, the lack of which is probably one of the reasons why matriarchy is not a big thing in Real Life.

LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#4: May 16th 2011 at 4:17:38 AM

Just because one social group is doing all the farming work doesn't necessarily mean they'd be capable of (or even want to try) overthrowing the higher social group.

And I don't see how herbs are going to help against ST Is. They'd help with relieving the symptoms maybe, but herblore isn't likely to kill bacteria or viruses (there could be an exception of course, after all penicillin came from mould). Plus, at the same time as the human gene pool is evolving immunities to ST Is the bacteria and viruses are evolving ways around them. And they evolve faster.

I tried designing a matriachal society a while ago, although it went in quite a different direction to yours. Polyandry was accepted, there were complex legal systems and feuding clans, and women took on most of the administrative roles. They were mainly nomadic traders, however.

Be not afraid...
renovalino Reno from Hong Kong Since: Jul, 2010
Reno
#5: May 16th 2011 at 5:23:49 AM

Loni: However, as male in the culture are farmers and soldiers, which basically controls the safety and supplies of the society, I think there should be a reason why male didn't brought down the matriarchy. While using religion to take the moral high ground is a common technique, somehow I doubt it is effective enough. just bugs me

And about the STD thing, I think maybe I can get away by decreasing the world's STD pathogen types and strains, as well as adding other stuff into the herb (maybe the herb contains a anti-bacterial fungi that is in symbiosis with the herb?). It should be good enough to stay within the range of Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

I think Āditya (I started to hate myself using a transliteration that contains alphabets not available in QWERTY keyboard) does have some similarities with your matriachal society (female administration, and a complex legal system, which is needed to rule a large enough empire). Though, mine is a more agricultural one. smile

LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#6: May 16th 2011 at 5:27:37 AM

Does there have to be a reason? As long as there's no active oppression going on social inertia might be enough.

Be not afraid...
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#7: May 16th 2011 at 5:54:44 AM

My witches tend to be matriarchal.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
renovalino Reno from Hong Kong Since: Jul, 2010
Reno
#8: May 16th 2011 at 6:05:42 AM

Loni: Maybe you're right. Though I think there should be something to reinforce the status quo. "Being the way we are for a long time" usually isn't a strong enough reason? Especially when the culture is in contact of other patriarchal cultures.

Zolnier: Of course, because witches are all female! evil grin (Male ones are called warlocks)

LoniJay from Australia Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
#9: May 16th 2011 at 6:13:03 AM

"We've been this way for a long time" "It's traditional" "We're pretty well-off anyway"... all those seem like reasonable dampeners on revolution to me. Particularly if you add double standards and stereotypes like "men just aren't smart enough to manage a farm" and the like into the mix. Those things are stubborn. Our own culture is finding it difficult to remove our own versions - see the Domestic Violence thread in On-topic conversations if you don't believe me.

Be not afraid...
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#10: May 16th 2011 at 6:45:16 AM

Actually my witches use the word like it was used in the Middle ages, as an unisex.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
blueharp Since: Dec, 1969
#11: May 16th 2011 at 7:27:54 AM

If you're concerned about criticism, you're going to get it for your idea about STD resistance, because it will highlight the attention.

And I really think you're underplaying the skills used in farming, and the making of tools. They aren't just grunt work.

renovalino Reno from Hong Kong Since: Jul, 2010
Reno
#12: May 16th 2011 at 8:10:31 AM

Loni: Well, I guess it would work then...... tongue

Zolnier: Well, I am just trying to just bugs me you. No offense. grin

Harp: Well, while writing less will draw less criticism, my Pride as a(n amateur) [[Worldbuilding worldbuilder]] still force me to try dealing with that stuff. I guess maybe I should just pretend STD did not happen in this world then.

For the farming one, I would say as it still relies on heavy labour a lot, it would be classified as a physical work and assigned to men. The actual skills required for farming, no matter how much, will probably just be considered "trival" stuff, like making cloths in Real Life - good-looking/flourishing, but not really important.

Food processing and tool-making, I think it might be a halfway case: both female and male are involved, but usually it is the female planning and ordering males to do the hard work. The same apply to the military thing, where female commanders are considered the most important one as The Strategist / The Chessmaster, while male soldiers are just pawns to show their skills.

edited 16th May '11 8:13:34 AM by renovalino

blueharp Since: Dec, 1969
#13: May 16th 2011 at 2:33:41 PM

If you don't bring up diseases, and poxes, and plagues, nobody will care half as much as they would you try to fix it with a messy patch. Especially since you'd only be fixing one relatively minor problem. As bad and scary as AIDS is, it's a drop in the bucket to what happened before vaccines and antibiotics, when more babies died than lived.

Oh, almost forgot, calendars are one major influence on civilization, because knowing when to plant and harvest, very important. You can make that the woman side of things.

SavageHeathen Pro-Freedom Fanatic from Somewhere Since: Feb, 2011
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
#14: May 16th 2011 at 3:48:56 PM

The viking expies from one of my stories have a fairly matriarchal society.

For starters, a bunch of families live together at the clan's longhouse. The children of all the women are raised together. So there's always a gazillion of distant cousins roaming around. They're a warlike culture, so they tend to have lots of kids.

More children means a bigger clan: Pregnancies are not regarded as shameful. Therefore, the women enjoy ample sexual freedom. They're a social bunch: Nearby clans get together for feasts fairly often. Typically, young women find sexual partners among the young men who attend them.

Once a couple has been stable for a while, the woman invites her partner to move in with her clan. Once they've been living together for a few months, they're expected to marry. They are theoretically monogamous. However, both male and female indiscretions are often overlooked.

As long as the kids are strong and healthy, men are expected to recognize them as their own even when it's clear that other man sired'em. Other men are supposed to return the favor tongue.

Most warband leaders are male, as are most warriors. However, the women traditionally keep full control of the clan's finances, they basically run trade, and most (except those who live with their husband's clan) enjoy the right of kicking their husband out of the house and sending him back to his birth clan.

Their kings are generally male: They're expected to rally all the tribes's warriors in war, so it's a position that's generally left for males. The head of the priesthood is ALWAYS FEMALE, and 2/3 of guilds are led by females.

edited 26th May '11 1:04:07 PM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
renovalino Reno from Hong Kong Since: Jul, 2010
Reno
#15: May 16th 2011 at 10:19:32 PM

Harp: Yeah, I know that. However, somehow STD just bugs me me more than the other diseases combined. I guess it is better to just not to try fixing the problem then. tongue

For the calender thing, I guess I will just take notes from China. While the calender is a lunisolar calender, it is fixed once several years to follow the weather pattern for farming. Since men cannot possibly sit through all the stargazing and calculation, naturally it is women's job to do so.

PhilippeO Since: Oct, 2010
#16: May 18th 2011 at 12:39:36 AM

> there are no marriage of our kind in this culture, with the closest equivalent as inviting someone into the clan. Since the lineage does not pass from father to son, and the paternal heritage is rarely seen as important

This will caused Uncle - Nephew strong connection. Male would be care more deeply to his sister children, rather than his own. Especially since his children probably isn't his.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineal

SavageHeathen Pro-Freedom Fanatic from Somewhere Since: Feb, 2011
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
#17: May 18th 2011 at 5:19:29 AM

[up] If there's no marriage at all, that's probably true. In any polyandrous system, men will be close to their nephews.

If there is marriage, a man would probably feel close to his wife's children as well, though.

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
MatthewTheRaven Since: Jun, 2009
#18: May 26th 2011 at 12:48:39 PM

Look up Gayle Rubin's 1975 essay "The Traffic in Women: Notes on the 'Political Economy' of Sex." It's a good primer on the problems that a matriarchal culture would have in developing, and why patriarchies form.

One big hurdle is that, without modern technology and social structures, the prime of a woman's life is spent rearing children while a man's is spent gathering skills and resources. That's why the sexual freedom thing seems a little bit questionable and fetishy.

Also, look into real life societies such as the Dahomey Amazons, in which brides of the king became respected warriors. A Dahomey Amazon could even gain a kind of patriarchal "manhood" - a shift in gender roles in which they identified as a man- by obtaining a wife of her own. You could do a matriarchal equivalent, in which a matriarch gathers war brides around her, forming the core of a clan.

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