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Live-action Hollywood anime films: How YOU would do it.

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dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#26: May 15th 2011 at 7:00:24 AM

Hmm.

  1. Pick a series that CAN be adapted, either with or without Race Lift.
  2. Gather as many filming crew members and actors who are anime fans.
  3. Make them read source materials AS MANY TIMES AS POSSIBLE, along with visiting the Headscratchers and WMG pages, and very good fanfics.
  4. Rock out.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Noimporta Since: Jan, 2001
#27: May 15th 2011 at 9:55:08 AM

It depends on the anime really. For Dragon Ball, yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. All white people are that.
Signeds gonna sign.

As for the topic itself... I don't really have a problem with race-lifting and localization most of the time, there are few (popular enough to get an adaptation) series that I would say context/culture dependant or relevant enough for it to matter, and frankly, if you want to introduce the story to a new audience, it's good to have it be more relatable. Regarding aesthetics, anime's staurated palletes don't work in real life, so don't bother, same with hairstyles. Of course, I don't really think an adaptation should be constrained by its source material (assuming there's some sort of integrity involved), particualrly in the case where it is being done within a different cultural context, if I wanted to watch the exact same thing again... I'd probably cut the middleman and watch the exact same thing again.

shiro_okami Since: Apr, 2010
#28: May 15th 2011 at 11:30:56 AM

For Darker Than Black I would split it into two movies, one on "Heaven's War" and the other about the concluding episodes. Cast two Chinese guys as Hei and Wei and Daniel Craig as November 11. Hell's Gate would be relocated to NYC and Heaven's Gate to Australia. Both movies would end with an (English version of) "Howling".

For Cowboy Bebop, split into three movies, have Yoko Kanno do the music, and use a live-action version of the animated movie as a Cold Open, followed by "Tank", and an English version of "Real Folk Blues" by a female country singer for the end.

edited 15th May '11 11:37:30 AM by shiro_okami

Signed Always Right Since: Dec, 2009
Always Right
#29: May 15th 2011 at 12:38:58 PM

Except that's assuming the original author's intent matters.

Yes, of course it matters...he's still very much alive, and it's still his property. He is god of the Dragon Ball universe because he created it. Why wouldn't his original intent matter? Unless he explicitly said his original intent does not matter himself.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
AirofMystery Since: Jan, 2001
#30: May 15th 2011 at 1:07:47 PM

[up]Raven Wilder: My point was, I don't think hair and eye colour can't be used to determine anime characters' ethnicity what with You Gotta Have Blue Hair and all. White people don't have natural pink hair any more than East Asians do, and 'Sakura' is not exactly a common name for a white girl. Besides, while race is not plot-vital to the world of Naruto, it is very heavily based on Japanese mythology.

If I had to compromise on this, I'd take the Thor movie's method: main protagonists Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura are the ethnicity the mythology's from (white in Thor, Yamato Japanese in Naruto) and cast a slightly wider net for the other characters (like Idris Elba and Tadanobu Asano in Thor). But really, should I have to? It's not like there's a lack of roles for white people in fantasy movies, do they have to take away the few roles Asians would have?

I admit, most of my reasons for wanting an all-East Asian cast for anime adaptations is being fed up with Hollywood being 'default to white' most of the time. The argument that Americans can't relate to protagonists of colour is bullshit because A: America is only about 72% white, but way more than 72% of American films predominately star white people, and B: Really, Hollywood? Do you think we're all KKK members or something? Do you honestly think a movie about POCs learning martial arts won't sell?

Because it did. It sold like delicious, "in-your-face-racebent-casting" hotcakes.

edited 15th May '11 1:08:19 PM by AirofMystery

harkko Since: Apr, 2010
#31: May 15th 2011 at 1:21:31 PM

1. Pick a non-fantasy/sci-fi series, 2. which is set in North America 3. Gore or sex aren't some of its selling points 4. Doesn't have great visuals in its original form but good characters and storylines

shiro_okami Since: Apr, 2010
#32: May 15th 2011 at 2:25:11 PM

[up][up] I agree with you, although I think that Hollywood shouldn't be allowed to do any adaptation of an anime with Japanese/Eastern cultural saturation. And if the anime is set in Japan, then either use an Asian cast or change the setting.

edited 15th May '11 3:10:17 PM by shiro_okami

SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#33: May 15th 2011 at 2:29:25 PM

[up][up]

So, Baccano?

AirofMystery Since: Jan, 2001
#34: May 15th 2011 at 2:30:17 PM

[up][up]If they change the cast's ethnicity and the whole Japanese-ness of the thing, why adapt it at all?

Like what they're doing with the Akira movie right now. If they're gonna set it in New York and have all white people playing Tetsuo and Kaneda and whatever, why not just make a movie inspired by Akira? The Matrix proved you can do live-action movies that're inspired by anime without getting real anime adaptations wrong.

edited 15th May '11 2:31:56 PM by AirofMystery

shiro_okami Since: Apr, 2010
#35: May 15th 2011 at 3:02:35 PM

[up] That's why I said not to pick an anime with any inherent Japanese-ness. Even if an anime has Japanese characters and is set in Japan, that doesn't inherently make it "Japanese". For example, both Darker Than Black and Death Note are set in Japan with Japanese characters, yet you could change the setting and race of the Japanese characters with practically no impact on the story. In that case, there wouldn't be any problem with an American cast. Although your idea works too, depending on what you mean by "inspired by".

AirofMystery Since: Jan, 2001
#36: May 15th 2011 at 3:07:26 PM

FE. I'd still prefer they cast East Asians there, though.

Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#37: May 15th 2011 at 3:16:56 PM

@shiro okami:

For Darker than Black I would split it into two movies, one on "Heaven's War" and the other about the concluding episodes. Cast two Chinese guys as Hei and Wei and Daniel Craig as November 11. Hell's Gate would be relocated to NYC and Heaven's Gate to Australia. Both movies would end with an (English version of) "Howling".
Aim a little higher, dude. There are plenty of American movies set in Japan. Also making a movie of Heaven's War and then doing the Amber arc is a terrible idea since half the point is that you don't know exactly what happened in Heaven's War. And really, Heaven's War wouldn't be that interesting of a story on its own.

I guess it is.
shiro_okami Since: Apr, 2010
#38: May 15th 2011 at 3:42:24 PM

[up] I said I would have done it that way because I think it would be too hard to build up the "Heaven's War" Backstory in a 2-hour movie without several Info Dumps, and you could still find a way to hide some of the details in order to keep The Reveal. I suppose you could set it in Japan, but I haven't heard of "plenty" of American movies set in Japan other than the third The Fast And The Furious, The Last Samurai, and Rising Sun.

Jordan Azor Ahai from Westeros Since: Jan, 2001
Azor Ahai
#39: May 15th 2011 at 3:59:51 PM

I kind of think if I was filming Darker Than Black, I'd start with a scene of Hei and his sister as kids playing outside and then out of nowhere, the Gate would show up and there would be this Apocalypse Wow.

Then, I'd show like x years later and have the opening of the series.

Since he's such a great character it wouldn't be a bad idea to up the role November 11 plays. I've thought in the past Marc Warren could be good for the role.

Hodor
Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#40: May 15th 2011 at 8:16:26 PM

Avatar did not fail because of Race Lift, it failed because of crappy directing.

Talking heads? Really? You learn not to do that in Film 101.

Narration? Okay I understand you have to cut down the time, and narration may be the only way to do that- but when you narrate something that would have taken less time to show??!?

Anyway, I actually think Race Lift can be very effective- if done correctly.

For example: Neon Genesis Evangelion is ripe for Race Lift- there is no reason that all the characters should be Japanese- it doesn't even really make sense in the show. NERV should be an international organization, and so there should be an international cast.

Now I would keep the Ikari's (and thus Rei too) as Japanese. Their emotional repression will fit best with the Japanese cultural traditions.

I'd probably place the main NERV base in San Fransisco. It allows easier California Doubling, makes for better famous scenery shots, and emotionally grounds people more in the "this is a dystopian future for us, not some galaxy far away" aspects.

It might also allow for some additional angst for Shinji if his parents are Japanese but he's been raised half his life in America- it could help explain why he doesn't fit in anywhere.

Asuka would be German-American of course. Just call her "Asuka Langley". Have her father be American navy, from Virgina area I think. He mother would be German, Nerv scientist. Explains her red hair and her attitude.

Misato... I think I'd make her Italian-American. It fits with her full of life energy, and would explain her cross necklace. Make her a lapsed Catholic. Possibly with a devout (but dead) grandmother. That would open the possibility to use her to explore some of the religious themes in a more comprehensible manner. Which would be an important thing to do if you are selling this to a Christian culture. (As a side benefit, Misato is actually an Italian name).

Kaji just strikes me as Australian. Plus since Austrailia is an uninhabitable wasteland, it would be a way to add some character depth to him. That he lived through hell as a child trying to survive Second Impact. Marking him out as a survivor. Explaining why he won't trust people and is such a manipulator. Also giving a strong motivation for obsession with finding out the Truth about Second Impact without requiring extensive time spent building backstory.

Ritsu would probably be Western European, I'm thinking French. Or at least make her mother French, perhaps Ritsu has a non-French father?

Kozo Fuyutsuki I'd probably make British. Nothing says Affably Evil like a British accent.

I'd probably place Kaworu Nagisa as coming from Nerv's Russian base.

I'm thinking maybe make Maya Brazilian? Give her a little more color and depth.

I think Toji would another Italian-American, while Kensuke and Hikari would both be white bread Americans.

Oh, and I wouldn't want to do it as a movie. I don't think it will work, I'd want to make it as a TV series, maybe with a mini-series opening, similar to Battlestar Galactica.

First hour would be introducing us to the story, and getting us to like Misato. So I think the opening scene should be Second Impact, and Misato's father saving her, and giving young Misato the cross. After that we can pretty much follow the first 2 episodes, perhaps moving the scenes around to improve the flow.

When the cross shows up again in the next scene we'll be able to link them together. We can also start setting up Misato's complicated relationship with her father, and paralleling that to Shinji's complicated relationship with Gendo.

Misato is probably going to be the main draw till Asuka shows up so we have to make sure people like her.

The next hour needs to be spent on Shinji working through his angst. I'd probably stay closer to the series plotline with the mystery and secrecy still in place, but handle the angst more like in the movies- which handled it better, and made Shinji a more sympathetic character. I'd also give a little more time to building up Hikari, Kensuke, and Toji. For one thing revealing early on that all of them lack mothers. This will help serve to create a closer bond with Shinji, and throw up a red flag that something isn't right.

I also think I'd make the three childhood friends (believable if their mothers were working for Nerv when they died), and give each of them a screwed up relationship with their fathers.

Kensuke would have his father use beating to discipline him (like for his actions during the 2nd Angel). Toji and Hikari would disapprove of this, but Kensuke would be able to see that it's because his father loves him and is scared of losing him the way he lost Kensuke's mother.

Toji would have a workaholic father (already hinted at in the orginal series), so he and his sister are sort of ignored.

Hikari would be the mother figure in her family (as per canon) but with a little more exploration of how it's kind of messed up for a parent to push that responsibility on to her.

That will help flesh them out, and I think it can all be done with only a little bit of character building. This hour will be the Angst Angst Angst everywhere episode.

The third hour will be developing Rei and her story, basically as in the 5 and 6th episodes, and in the movie (which essentially kept the same character development and plot.)

That would be the portion that might work as a mini-series so the story could be tested out before the studio commits to a whole season.

Next I'd skip the whole Jet-robot thingy, and go straight to introducing Asuka.

Another story I think could be very effective with a Race Lift would be Clannad.

Make Tomoya black and from the projects. Nagisa would be from a middle class black family. I think the dynamics would fit very well that way. Combine Tomoyo with Kyou. Make the Fujibayashi sisters Hispanic I think, Youhei Sunohara as well. Kotomi would be a white girl. Cut out Yukine Miyazawa, and give any needed Yukine lines to Kotomi. Reduce Kotomi's story to just being the shy smart girl who wants to make friends. Cut Fuko entirely. They are all attending a private Catholic school.

I think there are two movies here. The first would focus on Tomoya and Nagisa's growing romance, using the basketball game storyline, and Tomoya's growing acceptance into a loving family. Kyou would be the main romantic rival.

The second movie would be After Story based, and have some focus on Tomoya finding peace with his father. Cut out the part of magically finding a way to save Nagisa, and instead end with Tomoya at peace with the past, and Kyou as Ushio's knidergarten teacher coming over to visit.

I think they could be some really powerful movies there.

edited 15th May '11 8:21:55 PM by Sackett

Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#41: May 15th 2011 at 8:35:26 PM

I disagree completely with your opinion on the matter of race and setting about Evangelion. I think it's very Japanese in terms of subject matter in attitude towards the world, and if that's lost it's not really Evangelion anymore, in my opinion. (By the way, the cross Misato wears is a Greek cross.)

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.
Signed Always Right Since: Dec, 2009
Always Right
#42: May 15th 2011 at 8:38:09 PM

Theres a number of problems...but mainly...

Make Tomoya black and from the projects. Nagisa would be from a middle class black family. I think the dynamics would fit very well that way. Combine Tomoyo with Kyou. Make the Fujibayashi sisters Hispanic I think, Youhei Sunohara as well. Kotomi would be a white girl. Cut out Yukine Miyazawa, and give any needed Yukine lines to Kotomi. Reduce Kotomi's story to just being the shy smart girl who wants to make friends. Cut Fuko entirely. They are all attending a private Catholic school.

Those are all japanese names.

And...what's making them attend a private Catholic school for?

edited 15th May '11 8:39:47 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#43: May 15th 2011 at 8:40:07 PM

[up][up][up]

Has the right idea.

[up]

You are focusing on minutia.

Now, I'm not particularly interested in watching the version of Evangelion [up][up][up] described, but if you were going to make a Hollywood production out if it, thats how you'd do it.

The fact that the hardcore fans would rage is why I think this entire exercise is silly. Why do people want to take anime and turn it into live action movies? Why not just watch anime and watch movies? Why try to force them together?

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#44: May 15th 2011 at 9:58:38 PM

[up][up] Name can just be changed, unless the names are Meaningful Name. About Catholic high school...I don't have any idea either.

[up] Why not? There are many commercially and critically successful comic book movies (Road To Perdition and History Of Violence pops into my mind, although financial part is doubtful), although they reflect Western culture far more. Still, there are some animes/mangas that touches theme that is universal to all culture and really, I find Race Lift and general westernization of them to be just a different method of presentation. The problem is that many people makes such movies without thorough understanding and affection toward the source material.

Besides, it's not like anyone is forcing you to watch the movies if they ever come out, is it? grin

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
harkko Since: Apr, 2010
#45: May 16th 2011 at 6:37:17 AM

Since I don't live in San Fransisco or in North America for that matter, I don't see how relocating Tokyo 3 there would make NGE more relatable. Actually, for some reason Japanese cities are more relatable looking than American ones even though Finnish cities don't have huge skyscrapers.

Jordan Azor Ahai from Westeros Since: Jan, 2001
Azor Ahai
#46: May 16th 2011 at 7:11:27 AM

I was thinking that in general, New York, London, and possibly Paris would probably have to be the resetting of any Tokyo-set series, because only they can really compete with Tokyo's record for being destroyed or invaded by aliens.

Hodor
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#47: May 16th 2011 at 8:49:27 AM

[up][up]You are not the main target of a Hollywood movie. I don't know where you live, but I am pretty sure most of the audience of a Hollywood production comes from US.

ninjamitsuki Rabid Vash Fangirl from TV Tropes, duh. Since: May, 2009
Rabid Vash Fangirl
#48: May 16th 2011 at 10:40:21 AM

Well, I don't really think too hard about these kinds of things since I know I'm not going to be doing it, but if a Trigun live action movie were to be made, it would be freaking amazing if it were based on the manga instead of the anime.

Nyktos (srahc 84) eltit Since: Jan, 2001
(srahc 84) eltit
#49: May 16th 2011 at 11:25:58 AM

@shiro okami: Here are some more. Not all that many on there, actually, but Japan isn't really the point. There are certainly plenty of American movies that are set somewhere other than the United States, which is what I really should have said.

I still stand by Heaven's War not really working. Thinking further, a superpowered war story could actually be cool, but it wouldn't have much in common with Darker Than Black (either the anime or the proposed second movie). You don't need an infodump: we didn't see that much of the war in the anime as it is. All you need for the Amber arc to work is to establish early on that for whatever reason, a large portion of South America has all but disappeared from the globe, and that Hei was in the area at the time, as was his sister who has disappeared.

edited 16th May '11 11:32:51 AM by Nyktos

I guess it is.
shiro_okami Since: Apr, 2010
#50: May 16th 2011 at 12:54:18 PM

[up] Point taken. I realize that the basic Backstory is simple, I still would want to do Show, Don't Tell for "Heaven's War" mostly to set up Amber's Backstory and her relationship with Hei and November 11 as well as the mystery surrounding the Gates, and I think it would be easier to show that directly as its own plot instead of alluding to it while advancing a different plot. If the Backstory was explained at the same time as Amber was running her plans for the Gate, all the dramatic build-up present in the anime would be lost (Hell's Gate and Amber are introduced several episodes before the conclusion). And also because I'm really curious about what actually went down during that time.

edited 16th May '11 1:01:59 PM by shiro_okami


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