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Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#226: Jan 5th 2014 at 12:07:25 PM

@Fighteer: it's essentially pseudonymous rather than anonymous, though, in that wallets are persistent identifiers and the transaction history is known. Smart people don't reuse wallets, of course, but smart people don't commit crime, by and large. Just like criminal activities in traditional banking may re-use the same anonymous offshore account.

A brighter future for a darker age.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#227: Jan 5th 2014 at 12:07:51 PM

[up][up]So how do you ensure transactions and the creation of bitcoins are proceeding properly if there's no central authority in charge of them?

edited 5th Jan '14 12:08:08 PM by Kostya

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#228: Jan 5th 2014 at 12:27:49 PM

[up]Massively resource-heavy cryptography, as I recall.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Sixthhokage1 Since: Feb, 2013
#229: Jan 5th 2014 at 12:30:04 PM

The closest to authorities of the Bitcoin system that exist are the developers of the mainline "Satoshi" client.

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#230: Jan 5th 2014 at 12:34:00 PM

So there's no central bank or anything that affects bitcoin? Seems like a bad idea.

Sixthhokage1 Since: Feb, 2013
#231: Jan 5th 2014 at 12:34:53 PM

The whole idea is for it to be decentralized.

Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#232: Jan 5th 2014 at 12:36:07 PM

Right. The whole point of all the processing is to allow for "proof" that the currency is exactly as it is, not double-charged or fabricated by anyone in the chain. Processing the transaction rewards you with newly minted currency, so it's supposed to be self-sustaining.

The key seems to be how slowly the "medium of exchange" side is taking off, which is messing with the "store of value" side, since it can be valued at whatever, but if no-one's accepting it, you need to cash out into a fiat currency, and so it's running up against effectively a massive exchange reserve requirement that's mucking up all the exchanges.

Sixthhokage1 Since: Feb, 2013
#233: Jan 5th 2014 at 12:39:42 PM

And a point I often see overlooked about mining: Miners also get transaction fees to help keep processing the proof-of-work incentivized as the amount of new bitcoins produced by mining decreases and eventually no longer are produced.

Linhasxoc Since: Jun, 2009
#234: Jan 5th 2014 at 1:10:43 PM

Miners also get transaction fees

How is this not sales tax by another name?

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#235: Jan 5th 2014 at 1:12:54 PM

Seems like a waste of money on an inefficient system from what I know about it. I've never even heard of someone accepting bitcoins as payment. Not that I blame them if it's as hard to get real money as it seems.

edited 5th Jan '14 1:13:35 PM by Kostya

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#236: Jan 6th 2014 at 1:48:27 PM

It seems that in the initial rush of enthusiasm, people were willing to buy bitcoins with cash, and as always happens, early adopters were able to recognize a large profit, but those days are over now. It has exactly the same profile as any other commodity bubble, save for taking a bit longer to fall apart. Unlike some bubbles, where there is a floor under the commodity thanks to its inherent value, bitcoin has zero inherent value.

On the other hand, other than a bit of number crunching, there's not a lot of real money invested in the system, so there's no mechanism for people to "cash out". Whatever bitcoins they have, they are probably stuck with. There's no way for the value to crash due to crazed selling because they can't sell.

edited 6th Jan '14 1:57:47 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#237: Jan 6th 2014 at 1:56:44 PM

So is it just going to fade into obscurity over time? It's been around for years now and I don't really see any benefit to cashing in now.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#238: Jan 6th 2014 at 1:58:21 PM

That seems the most likely fate, unless it gets a major, cash-flush investor. The thing is that it's primarily driven by ideology, not economics, so the most likely people to jump in are those with a lot of Libertarian-style minarchist ideals and very little common sense. That and criminals.

edited 6th Jan '14 1:59:22 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#239: Jan 6th 2014 at 3:03:45 PM

Unless, of course, you use forensic analysis to trace back ownership, as was done a while back.

Which wouldn't be too hard for the FBI. They have to deal with worse stuff in the real world. It's stupid to rely on the pseudoanonymity for anything sensitive.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#240: Jan 7th 2014 at 8:02:13 AM

Lawyers for Kanye West have filed cease and desist papers to halt creation of the virtual currency Coinye West.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#241: Jan 7th 2014 at 8:05:22 AM

Oh, what, so the original thing wasn't affiliated with Kanye? It's still farce, just slightly less absurd than I first thought.

By the way, I edited the thread title to be more inclusive.

edited 7th Jan '14 8:06:23 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#243: Jan 9th 2014 at 4:13:14 PM

How does he plan to buy advertising with those bitcoins, I wonder?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#244: Jan 10th 2014 at 6:26:03 AM

Until more things use bitcoins, his plan may be to cash them in.

Part of his reason for accepting bitcoins is his belief that the government should not have as much control over money as it does.

edited 10th Jan '14 6:26:43 AM by BonsaiForest

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Ogodei Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers from The front lines Since: Jan, 2011
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
#246: Jan 10th 2014 at 7:16:33 AM

Mt. Gox would have a heart attack if anyone tried to cash in the amount of money it takes to run, say, a TV ad. It'll be fun for whichever poor staffer is stuck with the task.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#247: Jan 10th 2014 at 7:25:38 AM

In a weird, ironic way, bitcoin has been a perfect, almost ideal experiment in the demand-side effects of wealth hoarding and the consequent insufficient liquidity.

edited 10th Jan '14 7:25:55 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#248: Jan 10th 2014 at 8:03:58 AM

There are some webhosts that accept Bitcoin, which I suppose could be used for online campaigns. Not sure if there are any especially good webhosts using it yet, but.

In a sense, all currencies are supported by an ideology. Bitcoin will hopefully be an interesting data point as to how widespread such an ideology needs to be, or perhaps what ideologies can successfully scale to that point.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#250: Jan 10th 2014 at 12:53:04 PM

Heh, once bitcoin transactions become taxable, we'll really see who is that committed to them. Of course, it's set up deliberately to make taxation difficult.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

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