First off I'm also an antinatalist. Once we stop breeding them they'll die off. Second they still suffer a lot regardless. And I personally think all wild animals should eventually have no further offspring as soon as possible too.
edited 12th May '11 9:22:43 PM by LoveHappiness
"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick BostromAnd I am a pragmatist. We will never get the world to accept that animals are worth our own suffering, better to find alternate methods to the same ends. Vat grown meat is certainly one possibility, harsher penalties for animal cruelty or even a large price increase on meats, thereby making it more of a luxury then a staple.
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?LH: How about going oh it is your choice and stop trying to enforce your obviously rejected world view in this thread.
Vat grown meats might be ok if they are at least tasty. If they taste good I can over look the creepy factor.
Have you ever heard of Quorm (spelling) basically fungus/mold meat alternative. It tastes ok. The after taste is a little odd. I still prefer chicken.
I should also note that at least where I live meat based proteins are cheaper then getting the same amount from vegetables. Probably has to do with the fact our city is still major slaughter house/meat processor industry. Omha Steaks being based here and all.
Who watches the watchmen?"LH: How about going oh it is your choice and stop trying to enforce your obviously rejected world view in this thread."
{personal attack removed - Bobby}
It's your choice, you can choose to be serial killer too. Right and wrong don't exist, but suffering does. You can choose to be a selfish person who consumes the carcasses of dead animals and supports the industry of killing sensitive beings in terrible living conditions. I'm just not going to be polite because all suffering matters intensely to me. It's not something I can just shrug off.
edited 13th May '11 7:37:53 AM by BobbyG
"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick BostromYeah, I'm sorry I'm a horrible selfish murderer who eats animals in the way that omnivores of all species are biologically designed to do? Nature is not a fluffy, happy place.
I'm all for making farms and slaughtering as humane as possible, but I'm not going to feel guilty for doing a natural biological function that was designed how I'm supposed to refuel myself.
(Ironically I don't even eat meat very often; just chicken occasionally and bacon very occasionally, and I prefer veggies, milk, and cheese instead. But that's just because I like the taste of non-meat stuff better, not because I'm obsessed over animal rights.)
Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)Sorry well, OK. But I will never accept animal slavery or murder or abuse, that is not a "choice". Anyway, I'm just sad that no one else here puts minimizing all suffering and death as one their central moral principles. I feel so alone in my extreme altruism.
edited 12th May '11 9:54:37 PM by LoveHappiness
"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick BostromI put minimizing suffering as one of my core principles. I just know that I as one human have limits. I am not going to try and stretch myself too far. That leads to pointless suffering. You cannot forget yourself and your own suffering. Just as you cannot forget the suffering of others. Strangers, loved ones, enemies, and other species.
edited 12th May '11 9:55:43 PM by Aondeug
If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan ChahMy virgin ears! let's keep it civil guys, don't want to invoke the wrath of the mods now.
You can choose to be a selfish person who consumes the carcasses of dead animals and supports the industry of killing sensitive beings in terrible living conditions.
And we do, the circle of life and all that.
I'm just not going to be polite because all suffering matters intensely to me. It's not something I can just shrug off.
We manage to stay polite in discussing all manner of things, it's not politeness as much as your not really debating. You claim that animals have the right to exist with minimal suffering, or something akin to that. You haven't presented a viable alternative to meat eating, in neither the short or long of it. You haven't bothered to counter the simple fact that we are omnivores nor have you bothered to state a reason why animals deserve such care. If you're not willing to see why society (for the most part) disagrees with you or your not going to bring any real debate to the plate I have to ask why you bothered making this thread?
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?Is it moral to torture animals when we have enough advanced science and technology to survive without eating meat?
Anime geemu wo shinasai!Depends on your morals, but sure.
By my system? Probably not. You'd have to work slowly and only a big scale to change things though. Change like that ain't going to happen fast or easy.
But even then what do we do with all the things? They aren't bred to survive outside our farms and shit. And there's a lot of the fuckers. Even if they do survive out there the animals out there are fucking assholes and will eat them. MORE SUFFERING.
Life is Dukkha, bitches.
edited 12th May '11 10:02:18 PM by Aondeug
If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan ChahTorture? Poor living conditions sure; but torture implies certain malicious intent that is not present in farming.
Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=bambi-or-bessie-are-wild-animals-ha-2011-04-12
Animals might be happier if we raise them on farm and eat them.