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Artemis92 Cogito Gratia Cogitan from contemplation Since: Dec, 2009
Cogito Gratia Cogitan
#901: Aug 2nd 2013 at 12:37:18 AM

I haven't played 3 (to my loss, I'm starting to think), I didn't know Soul Calibur was made from Soul Edge... and that makes all of the sense. [awesome] Man, you gotta pitch that to Project Soul.

Ponders too much; thinks too little. Currently goes by Knowlessman.
Ryuhza Brother from San Diego County, California Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
Brother
#902: Aug 2nd 2013 at 1:16:30 AM

Holy cow, Soul Calibur III had such damn good music! And so damn much of it too! The whole development of the game seems super productive with how much they put out. I wish we'd get another one like it in terms of content. A little more focus on balance wouldn't go amiss though.

They'll turn your world around
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#903: Aug 2nd 2013 at 6:01:43 AM

I despise Yunsung too much to give him credit for his stage themes being good... I'm going to call them Hwang's stage themes.

The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Otherarrow Since: Jul, 2010
#904: Aug 2nd 2013 at 7:24:52 AM

Soul Calibur being made from Soul Edge was actually introduced in 4. In 3, it was still just "holy anti-Soul Edge sword of ambiguous origin".

edited 2nd Aug '13 7:25:13 AM by Otherarrow

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X2X You'll never see it coming... from the Darkness Beyond Time Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
You'll never see it coming...
#905: Aug 2nd 2013 at 9:14:54 AM

@ Ryuhza: Told you it'd be a daunting task to pick favorites for III. tongue

The balance issues from III on, however, can be at least partially attributed to the series no longer having arcade releases (or arcade releases prior to the console ports). SC and SCII, while not perfect, were better in that department and SCIII: AE had better balancing than vanilla SCIII.

@ Other: I'm actually not sure on that. I know that IV definitely established that plot point, but given that Algol was floating around in the backstory well before his actual debut, I can't recall if II or III first introduced that aspect of Soul Calibur's history or not.

edited 2nd Aug '13 9:18:10 AM by X2X

"Just wants a friend but had to give up his ding dong for it, tragic." - AngelLightStar
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#906: Aug 2nd 2013 at 9:23:17 AM

I'm pretty sure that Soul Calibur being created from Soul Edge was established long before IV.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Otherarrow Since: Jul, 2010
#907: Aug 2nd 2013 at 9:36:00 AM

Soul Calibur being forged from a shard of Soul Edge isn't mentioned in II, and the only backstory it gets in III is that Zasalamel's tribe guarded it back in the day. Nothing on where it actually came from though.

While Algol was mentioned as early as (I think) supplementary materials for II, Soul Calibur's origins were left unexplored until IV.

With that said, I do think it is possible that it was planned for Soul Calibur to be born from Soul Edge earlier than IV. Inferno in II has Soul Calibur inside of him and when the Soul Embrace is formed in III, Soul Edge tried to "pull in" Soul Calibur after the latter is stabbed into the former, but nothing to the effect is ever mentioned in those games, and it is entirely possible that those events are just kinda "fits in hindsight" moments.

edited 2nd Aug '13 9:40:01 AM by Otherarrow

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X2X You'll never see it coming... from the Darkness Beyond Time Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
You'll never see it coming...
#908: Aug 2nd 2013 at 9:39:43 AM

Yeah, ok, that sounds right. Prior to IV, all we really knew about Soul Calibur (IIRC) was that it was created to combat Soul Edge (but not how it was created) and its relation to the Three Sacred Treasures of the Ling-Sheng Su Temple (since it was hiding as the Krita-Yuga prior to Xianghua's battle against Inferno).

I even pointed out those "hindsight" moments on the Fridge page, even though I did mention that it could be just as easily be seen as one big, sweeping Hand Wave.

edited 2nd Aug '13 9:41:19 AM by X2X

"Just wants a friend but had to give up his ding dong for it, tragic." - AngelLightStar
Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#909: Aug 2nd 2013 at 10:40:46 AM

[up][up]When you put it that, especially the soul embrace thing, Calibur being part of Edge sounds like it was foreshadowed to hell and back.

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Otherarrow Since: Jul, 2010
#910: Aug 2nd 2013 at 10:54:38 AM

Both of those things are more subtle than you'd think, as nothing in the story points them out or makes note of them.

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HellmanSabian Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
#911: Aug 2nd 2013 at 11:48:52 AM

A week or so after Nightmare's defeat, Talim sneaks onto the field where the battle took place, still sensing the faint presence of holy energy. There, she finds a shard of Soul Calibur, broken off from when Siegfried went 'Anti-Nightmare' in the opening, and she keeps it alongside the shard of Soul Edge she still has - the last known fragment still separate from the original. Unknown to her, Zasalamel is tailing her from out of range of her spiritual senses; he has been intrigued by her pure spirit in the face of adversity, and believes that she may be the key to allowing the Soul swords to fall into balance with each other (to tie in with the foreshadowing about Talim in SC 3 that's been all but dropped at this point).

Talim returns home to a much-relieved village - Zasalamel continuing to watch over her from afar - and she resumes training and practicing her duties as babaylan (priestess). She hides away the shard of Soul Edge, but keeps the shard of Soul Calibur close to her person, in the hopes of learning how to harness its holy energy for the good of nature. However, being a part of Soul Calibur, it slowly begins to influence her actions via dreams: dreams of a pure, crystalline utopia, of the lack of war, chaos and death... and of the actions she must be willing to take in order to bring about that future. Talim nearly does something she would regret one day, when she attempts to kill one of the villagers under her for a petty crime; Zasalamel finally steps in and prevents her from doing so, believing that the guilt of such an action would eventually strip her of her potential.

At first, Talim is suspicious of Zasalamel, especially after her encounter with him in the remote clock tower (I'd make it so that Talim is the canonical character who encountered Zasalamel there in SC 3). When the ancient warrior explains the radical nature of Soul Calibur's desire to bring order, however, Talim has no choice but to believe him; she experienced it first-hand, after all. He offers to teach her what he knows in controlling the soul swords, and she accepts, spending a few years under his tutelage in her village. Over time, Zasalamel finds himself growing attached to this young woman; he has never taught anyone in any of his incarnations, always alone, and he soon grows to realize that if he cannot become a good guiding force to even one person, he cannot hope to guide entire civilizations to the bright future he saw in his visions.

Eventually, Talim has a thought: Calibur and Edge are two extremes of worldly states. What if they tried to merge the shard of Soul Calibur with the shard of Soul Edge (she'd know by this point that Soul Calibur was created from 'purified' fragments of Soul Edge) to bring the two opposing forces into balance? Zasalamel agrees to try; the result is a blade glowing in blue and red, containing a soul that is aware of the need for order and chaos in the world - though it is still like a newborn, simple and naive in its thinking. Talim and Zasalamel begin to teach it their respective philosophies - how order keeps peace (the delicate balance of nature), and how chaos brings change (the unpredictable shifting as time goes on) - allowing it to understand the difference and when and when not to act, eventually endearing them to it in the process.

I found that rather good. At any rate, I like your idea.

What I find amusing though is the 'balance' tidbit in there. My friend and I had an argument once about Namco entering in a third sword into the series, just after playing Soul Calibur 2. He insisted it would be a balance between the other two and that it would be awesome.

I found the idea kinda stupid at the time. :|

Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#912: Aug 2nd 2013 at 12:14:33 PM

[up]You see I like this idea because it actually shows Talim...changing in someway. Throughout the whole series it seems like Talim doesn't even change at all. While all the other characters do.

By the end of the series Talim is still the pure girl who wants to destroy Soul Edge.

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nomuru2d Gamer-turning-maker from Port Saint Lucie, FL Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Longing for Dulcinea
Gamer-turning-maker
#913: Aug 2nd 2013 at 5:16:23 PM

[up]And yet her ultimate weapon is dual-wielding both swords.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#914: Aug 2nd 2013 at 5:18:29 PM

She's Guided By Wind into always being right!

The sad, REAL American dichotomy
X2X You'll never see it coming... from the Darkness Beyond Time Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
You'll never see it coming...
#915: Aug 2nd 2013 at 8:00:48 PM

@ Demo: Overall, I like your idea and I find your depiction of a Talim/Zasa friendship (mentorship?) believable. However, since you said that this was hold you felt their story should play out in SCV, I'll unfortunately have to be that guy who nitpicks your post based off of what SCIV already brought to the table. My apologies in advance.

The problem with the Talim and Soul Calibur scenario is that IV has Talim trying to return the soul swords to their rightful place (I'm guessing Astral Chaos) because their power is explicitly causing problems in the world by dint of warping the fabric of reality itself. For Talim, the only way balance could exist would be for Soul Edge and Soul Calibur to no longer manifest in the physical world.

If this was during III or right before she had those visions of Soul Calibur's destructive nature in IV, then maybe she'd be more acceptant of Soul Calibur and the idea of using it to purify Soul Edge (if that were indeed possible). Because of all that, it might make more sense for Talim to hold on to the shard because she fears it falling into the hands of someone who might abuse/misuse that power. (From there, you could then go with Soul Calibur trying to exert control over an unwitting/unknowing Talim via visions of a new world order and such.)

That being said, if SCV was anything like that story-wise, I don't think the fanbase would have any real contention (aside from its contradiction to pre-existing canon) since it's clearly well thought out.

@ nomuru: I figured that Talim having both Soul Edge and Soul Calibur as her ultimate weapon in IV was a representation of how pure at heart she was. It doesn't seem that too many here share my views, but I actually liked that Talim was the only member of the cast besides than Sophitia (arguably prior to IV) who had noble intentions that weren't weighed down by all of this emotional baggage. Sure, that means she's rather static throughout the series, but I felt Talim was a character who was developed well enough that it didn't matter. There's just something about Talim that makes any turn towards Knight Templardom seem unfitting (especially since she knows what's up with the soul swords). It'd be an interesting turn of events, no doubt, but it doesn't quite seem like her. Maybe some really good writing would help sell me on it. (shrugs)

"Just wants a friend but had to give up his ding dong for it, tragic." - AngelLightStar
X2X You'll never see it coming... from the Darkness Beyond Time Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
You'll never see it coming...
#916: Aug 2nd 2013 at 9:20:39 PM

Sorry for the double post, but here's the next crowner (for the SCIV OST) as I tally up the votes from the previous one.

The progression for the remaining crowners will probably go V > Legends > Broken Destiny. The only problem is that I'll need to look into Legends to verify that I found everything and a lot of Broken Destiny's soundtrack doesn't even seem to be on YouTube.

"Just wants a friend but had to give up his ding dong for it, tragic." - AngelLightStar
Ryuhza Brother from San Diego County, California Since: Feb, 2012 Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
Brother
#917: Aug 2nd 2013 at 9:49:28 PM

Oh, sweet, Water Dance is a great track. The runner-ups are agreeable too.

They'll turn your world around
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#918: Aug 2nd 2013 at 10:43:15 PM

I'm fine with Talim being made of Incorruptible Pure Pureness. For me, any retcons, including those I've already suggested, would happen over the course of 2/3, mainly immediately at the ending of 3. I can't think of a better term for that time period than that being the shatterpoint.

edited 2nd Aug '13 10:43:28 PM by wanderlustwarrior

The sad, REAL American dichotomy
Demovere Since: Dec, 2009
#919: Aug 2nd 2013 at 11:04:01 PM

@X2X:

If this was during III or right before she had those visions of Soul Calibur's destructive nature in IV, then maybe she'd be more acceptant of Soul Calibur and the idea of using it to purify Soul Edge (if that were indeed possible). Because of all that, it might make more sense for Talim to hold on to the shard because she fears it falling into the hands of someone who might abuse/misuse that power. (From there, you could then go with Soul Calibur trying to exert control over an unwitting/unknowing Talim via visions of a new world order and such.)

Yeah, this makes sense; I had forgotten about that part of SC4. Maybe add a part where she tries to practice de-manifesting them on her own, and that's when the Calibur shard starts trying to influence her.

As for Talim being so sugary-sweet: am I the only person who felt that she was more... rounded in SC2? Her quotes in that game more ran the gamut of determination, uneasiness, respect, focus, and perhaps a bit of harshness. Maybe it was a combination of those quotes and Julie Parker's non-moe performance that gave me that impression, particularly when compared to Yukari Tamura and especially Hynden Walch in later installments (seriously, the woman could probably give you diabetes just by talking to you tongue).

edited 2nd Aug '13 11:05:59 PM by Demovere

HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#920: Aug 2nd 2013 at 11:11:01 PM

[up] Wasn't Yukari Tamura also Talim in Soulcalibur II?

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#921: Aug 2nd 2013 at 11:19:28 PM

Yeah, Talim was overall at her best in SC 2.

The sad, REAL American dichotomy
X2X You'll never see it coming... from the Darkness Beyond Time Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
You'll never see it coming...
#922: Aug 2nd 2013 at 11:20:21 PM

[up] x4 How about the flashpoint? tongue

[up][up][up] Yeah, Talim was definitely... fiercer in SCII. I remember how Weapon Master Mode had her in the role of Minerva (the female rival) since I picked Yun-seong. I lost to her, had a rematch, and one of her quotes at the Vs. screen was a cocky "You still want more?", complete with a confident grin. It seems bizarre when compared to how she acts in III and IV, but Project Soul rolled with making her meeker on the outside but still keeping her inner will sharp.

[up][up] Yes, but I think Demo was doing a comparison on a VA-by-VA basis in general.

edited 2nd Aug '13 11:20:45 PM by X2X

"Just wants a friend but had to give up his ding dong for it, tragic." - AngelLightStar
Demovere Since: Dec, 2009
#923: Aug 2nd 2013 at 11:32:32 PM

Yeah, I was comparing Julie to Yukari and Hynden's overall performances.

Another thing that's most likely unintentional, but further cements the change in characterization: in SC2, Talim's default expression is a determined, no-smile look. Come SC3 and beyond, she's suddenly all smiles, with neutral and frowning becoming her less-common expressions.

MikeBreezy92 Storm King Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Noddin' my head like yeah
Storm King
#924: Aug 3rd 2013 at 3:28:21 AM

I don't typically care about Talim but I feel that her incorruptible goodness and selflessness is pretty good on her own. Most of the cast do things for their own sake.

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Azure Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist from The World Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Fist
#925: Aug 3rd 2013 at 8:09:34 AM

I still think Talim is a Purity Sue.

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