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This thread exists to discuss British politics.

Political issues related to Northern Ireland and the Crown Dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are also considered on-topic here if there's no more appropriate OTC thread for them.

If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.

As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.

More specifically, read this post for some guidance on what we don't want to see.


    Original OP 
(I saw Allan mention the lack of one so I thought I'd make one.)

Recent political stuff:

  • The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
  • Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
  • The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.

A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 7th 2024 at 4:50:10 PM

Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#276: May 22nd 2011 at 9:50:28 AM

That would be the best case scenario, although at the back of my head I'm still fretting that Britain is potentially missing out on some much needed income.

Fingers crossed.

Locking you up on radar since '09
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#277: May 22nd 2011 at 1:22:01 PM

Actually...

Lower petrol prices in Scotland would bring revenue from people in the borders driving North to fill up, not to mention all the haulage companies who go both sides of the border being sure to fill up before going South.

Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#278: May 22nd 2011 at 3:37:05 PM

Hm, good point.

However, a fuel duty drop of 1p surely can't do any good... can it?

Locking you up on radar since '09
GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows! Since: Oct, 2010
The Shadows Devour You.
#279: May 22nd 2011 at 5:42:45 PM

This oil fall is only in Scotland?

Great, yet another legitimate reason for the neighbours down south to feel cheated by the special treatment of the Scots. We get the biggest proportional share of the countries income as it is!

People keep forgetting that while Scotland has the oil, England has the London financial markets.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#280: May 23rd 2011 at 12:34:28 AM

We're discussing hypothetical effects of Scottish independence. Scotland would inevitably lose a lot of funding, the possible extra fuel revenues would only be a mitigating factor.

What would be interesting would be if greater devolution led to stronger calls for an English parliament.

TheGloomer Since: Sep, 2010
#281: May 23rd 2011 at 1:21:55 AM

Is the North Sea oil drilled and refined by a private company or is it publicly owned at present?

Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#282: May 23rd 2011 at 2:48:44 AM

This oil fall is only in Scotland?

Wait, what?

...If that's the case, then it's news to me, since I thought everyone was getting the same fuel price drop. It would be grossly unfair if only one country got the fuel price drop.

Is the North Sea oil drilled and refined by a private company or is it publicly owned at present?

From my understanding, there's a lot of different companies that have opened up wells in the North Sea, such as BP and (I think) Shell. There are also smaller companies that provide the technical expertise and equipment for these installations.

Locking you up on radar since '09
SavageHeathen Pro-Freedom Fanatic from Somewhere Since: Feb, 2011
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
#283: May 23rd 2011 at 3:15:46 AM

Not having to bail out The City's financial sector might when they screw up might well be described as a plus of independence.

At any rate, if not outright independence, Scots could demand de facto total control over all their affairs, removing any potential for British interference. They'd get away with it. And, if any autonomy that's granted, no matter how overkill, is ever taken away... Instant Political Shitstorm, Just Add Water.

edited 23rd May '11 3:25:52 AM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows! Since: Oct, 2010
The Shadows Devour You.
#284: May 23rd 2011 at 3:19:00 AM

^^Its privately owned. And I was taking that Scots only thing as being implied by others, it was news to me too, so I assume myself to be wrong unless others can confirm.

^Some of us Scots see ourselves as Not So Different to the English you know, Savage. I identify culturally as British before Scot. And I'd like to be European before British.

edited 23rd May '11 3:20:22 AM by GameChainsaw

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
SavageHeathen Pro-Freedom Fanatic from Somewhere Since: Feb, 2011
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
#285: May 23rd 2011 at 3:23:14 AM

[up]True enough.

Still, there's more or less a mandate for drastically increased autonomy, and I doubt the Coalition has the guts to stop them.

Not taking advantage of the situation would be a massive wasted opportunity. Odds are, there's not gonna be a similar opportunity for much greater Scottish self-rule in decades.

edited 23rd May '11 3:26:13 AM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows! Since: Oct, 2010
The Shadows Devour You.
#286: May 23rd 2011 at 3:33:56 AM

Let me ask you a question. Where does one stop?

There was once the Kingdom of Strathclyde in Scotland, which was a significant power in its own. It made up the region now comprising most of Western Scotland (the southern part anyway, the bit that juts out and thus doesn't include the truly southern parts.)

Should we consider giving it independence next?

I'm not saying a bit more devolution would be a bad thing. Hell, the ability to raise our own taxes would be great. (Maybe make the military contribution fixed or something.) It would also finally iron out any claims of unfairness; each region gets exactly what it earns. (And I'd say, incidentally, that there's every chance of Scotland coming out on the arse end of the agreement.) After that, I'd say that the English need their own parliament for local matters. They cannot be at the mercy of Scottish, Irish and Welsh M Ps towing the party line.

What you have there, people, is not a United Kingdom, but more a British Confederation.

EDIT: Actually as we'd retain the monarch, it is the united kingdom. Its just functionally a confederacy.

edited 23rd May '11 3:35:26 AM by GameChainsaw

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
SavageHeathen Pro-Freedom Fanatic from Somewhere Since: Feb, 2011
Pro-Freedom Fanatic
#287: May 23rd 2011 at 3:58:42 AM

[up] About Strathcylde...

It depends, do they want it? tongue

As a rule of thumb, I favor greater self-rule for everybody.

edited 23rd May '11 4:07:30 AM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows! Since: Oct, 2010
The Shadows Devour You.
#288: May 23rd 2011 at 4:05:03 AM

No, last time I checked the following of the Freedom for Strathclyde movement is about the same size as the Tooting National Front.

EDIT: How can we not have an entry for Citizen Smith?!

edited 23rd May '11 4:05:27 AM by GameChainsaw

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#289: May 23rd 2011 at 10:25:39 AM

We don't have one? Christ, that's a turn up! Genuinely surprised there.

Savage, hilarious as your stereotypical anti-capitalist copy-pasta comments are, they miss the fact that those markets bring in billions to the economy from all over the world, and Scotland would lose out on that if we became independant.

Fortunately, Glasgow is becoming the UK's Second City in terms of European finance; many banks have moved here, and the fact that there's a Financial Services and a Risk Management degree (the latter unique to Europe at that level I believe, and for 20 years so was the former. I did them both) done by universities in the city mean they have a great young graduate population of employees to get at. I don't see the likes of BNP Paribas, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan and others suddenly leaving if we became independant, so we could get some financial income. But we're still developing in terms of being an overall financial centre, and it will require a few years before we can properly stand on our own two feet as a major capital.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#290: May 23rd 2011 at 10:53:30 AM

Here's one for the Scots.

If Scotland does gain independence, what will be the capital?

Wardog Since: May, 2010
#291: May 23rd 2011 at 11:17:59 AM

[up]Edinburgh (which is the current capital).

On the subject of alleged authoritarianism by New Labour, what about their increasing the period a suspect can be held without charge to 28 days (and wanting to increase it to 90 days)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Act_2006

edited 23rd May '11 11:20:17 AM by Wardog

CaissasDeathAngel House Lewis: Sanity is Relative from Dumfries, SW Scotland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
#292: May 23rd 2011 at 11:41:57 AM

Yep, that one is easy enough. Glasgow is the bigger, better and more populous city, but Edinburgh has the country's parliament and main administration.

Forgot about the increase in time terror suspects can be held without charge, though that still puts America to shame (3 months against 3 decades...). It was also swiftly reversed, it should be noted. Didn't stop them trying to get at least part of the extra time back, but that was never going to happen.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
AllanAssiduity Since: Dec, 1969
#294: May 23rd 2011 at 4:06:18 PM

MP names the injunction footballer as Ryan Giggs. Now, I'll be right back, police have just burst into my bedroom because I typed his name.

In something of a retread of last year, flights cancelled due to the volcanic ash clouds from Iceland, which will hopefully not cause so many problems for the industry as last time.

SomeSortOfTroper Since: Jan, 2001
#295: May 23rd 2011 at 4:41:38 PM

Oh really? The only famous Welsh footballer? Not sure that injunction was worth it.

"Oh you hear? Apparently that Welsh bird off of Big Brother slept with a footballer but we don't know who?"

"Welsh bird? You think it was Giggsy?"

"Yeah, probably."

AllanAssiduity Since: Dec, 1969
#296: May 23rd 2011 at 4:49:23 PM

Hey, to be fair, I know some people who attracted to Welshm-...

Well, it depends on if you count woolly things on four legs as people, really.

Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#297: May 23rd 2011 at 11:42:32 PM

The question is, why would anyone expect someone from Big Brother to be discrete?

EricDVH Since: Jan, 2001
#298: May 24th 2011 at 12:11:41 AM

I'm with Chainsaw, breaking up the UK would be A Bad Idea™. That said, giving the individual components of the UK (including England) devolved legislatures for matters of purely regional import and having a separate national legislature for the UK as a whole, like the states in the USA or provinces in Canada, would certainly help to lower tensions and remove unnecessary meddling.

Eric,

Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#299: May 24th 2011 at 12:23:01 AM

I tend to agree, Eric, with the drawback that we don't yet have a devolved regional assembly for England.

If we can get one of them, things ought to settle a lot.

edited 24th May '11 12:26:53 AM by Michael

AndrewGPaul Since: Oct, 2009
#300: May 24th 2011 at 1:17:34 AM

I always thought that a good structure for a UK parliament alongside devolved Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish parliaments would be for the UK Parliament to simply consist of the sum of the regional bodies. So, rather than having a separate MP for Glasgow South and an MSP for Glasgow South, it'd be the same person; Monday to Wednesday they would be in Holyrood, and on Thursday and Friday he can sit in Westminster.

Obviously there are issues with different voting systems. More importantly, you may have issues with different constituency sizes, but that could be dealt with by scaling an MP's vote in Westminster according to ht epopulation of his constituency.

This also makes setting up smaller sub-national assemblies/parliaments easier. Want a Yorkshire Parliament? Fine, all the MPs for Yorkshire constituencies can meet up in a church hall in York three days a week.

edited 24th May '11 1:18:13 AM by AndrewGPaul


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