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A Symbolic Ragnorak

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Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#1: May 5th 2011 at 9:23:13 AM

So Baldur is my story's main villain. He's pissed because after years of abuse from the other Norse gods, ragnorak hasn't happend and he doesen't get to rule over a Mary Suetopia. So any ways he could do a modern ragnorak? He has two twelve year old witches at his disposal. And yes I'm aware Baldur is supposesd to die when ragnorak happens but in some tellings he ressurects afterwards. Also all the other gods from mythology exist.

edited 5th May '11 9:23:45 AM by Zolnier

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
Quoth Pink's alright, I guess. Since: Apr, 2010
Pink's alright, I guess.
#2: May 5th 2011 at 11:21:21 AM

You should maybe try to read Norse mythology?

annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#3: May 5th 2011 at 11:48:46 AM

[up] Yes please.

According to the Norse myths Baldr was actually a flowery little bucket of sunshine (almost literally) and the pride and joy of the Æsir before his unfortunate death by mistletoe which was a great tragedy for them.

If you want to use a god who really was abused by the gods, try Fenrir, Loki's wolf-son, who was chained up in Hel's realm *

virtually upon birth, until Ragna Rǫk when he is at last unchained.


Norse mythology is a big unorganized pile of information to get into, so if you want to learn about Ragna Rǫk, start with the [1] Vǫluspá, which are the tellings of the past and future by a badass Vǫlva who visits Oðinn. It is the first poem in the Poetic Edda.

edited 5th May '11 11:52:27 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#4: May 5th 2011 at 6:24:36 PM

I know Baldur is the Canon Sue of Norse Mythology.

edited 5th May '11 11:29:00 PM by Zolnier

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#5: May 5th 2011 at 7:18:42 PM

Note that I really like the sound of a spoiled Baldr who doesn't get to rule in the reborn world and wants to make it happen, but the idea of the Æsir abusing him just doesn't make sense to me as the point of Baldr's death is to be the first great tragedy to the Æsir. I don't know anything about your story though—maybe you can pull it off. But really—study the original material and what scholars have written about it like it's the Bible and put a lot of thought into it. You have to know what you are changing before you can change it.

Anyway, Ragna Rǫk is caused by Fenrir being unleashed and attacking Asgarð. You could have Baldr (who is dead by a non-combat-related death anyway so he should have easier access to Fenrir), unleash Fenrir himself. I don't know what would cause Baldr to do it (he'd have to know it would cause Ragna Rǫk first, and that he'd return to life with his own realm afterward.), but this is just the first building block of an idea.

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#6: May 7th 2011 at 8:13:07 AM

Spoiled Brat Baldur sounds cool.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#7: May 7th 2011 at 9:18:35 AM

I think I've figured out a basic synopsis of the story:

  • Vǫlva in Vǫluspa: Yo guess what Baldr's gon die and y'all's gon die when Loki's son gets out but that's okay because Baldr's gon come back and rule the new world.
  • Baldr dies, goes to Hel
  • He's chillin' in Hel, then another vǫlva comes and says:
  • Vǫlva: Hahaha disregard that I suck cocks you're not going to be reborn to rule the new world after all
  • Baldr: What? What the fuck? Fine, I'll make this happen if I have to. I want to be reborn soooo bad!

edited 7th May '11 9:18:54 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#8: May 7th 2011 at 10:10:24 AM

That makes sense.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#9: May 7th 2011 at 10:30:33 AM

I do feel bad about practically rewriting your plot, though.

Before and while writing it, I recommend you dive into the Poetic Edda, and as for learning how the Vikings lived, start with Hurstwic.

Apparently the site also has the 11 century Prose Edda, which is a more exhaustive source on the Norse myths, but unfortunately the Hijacked by Jesus is worse and Snorri (the guy who wrote the Prose Edda) tended to just make stuff up, such as the Æsir being from Troy or some shit like that.

edited 7th May '11 10:36:04 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#10: May 7th 2011 at 10:36:14 AM

Oh you haven't rewritten itsmile And does all the gods from other religons and cultures existing affect much?

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#11: May 7th 2011 at 10:47:25 AM

I'm really not sure what you're asking, so here's a bullet list:

  • No, it doesn't make sense for people to follow two different religions at once. Why would a Thor-worshipper worship Jupiter? In fact, he likely wouldn't even have heard of Jupiter to begin with.
  • Religions contradict each other. For one example, the Norse believed that Midgarðr (our world, the mortal realm) was made from the corpse of a giant called Ymir, while the Greeks believed that the earth was the living body of the primordial goddess Geia. You can't have both theories at once, now can you?
  • Everything written down regarding Norse myth has been Hijacked by Jesus to some degree because the Norse were not a scribal society to begin with—it was Christians who wrote them down. That's why you'll sometimes see depictions of Hel as some kind of eternal gruesome nightmare, even though evidence in the language and in the peoples' elaborate preparations for the journey to Hel points to it being a more neutral afterlife. You might also see depictions of Loki having shades of the devil on him, and Ymir being painted as evil (because Oðinn killed him) even though he never did anything wrong. It can sometimes be really difficult to determine what is Christian and what is not, though.

Oh, and here's another word of advice: Just about every artist's depiction of the Norse gods after the 12th century is horribly inaccurate as to how the Norse dressed.

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#12: May 7th 2011 at 10:54:15 AM

By the way the story is Urban Fantasy. And the witches in the story aren't seid users.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
annebeeche watching down on us from by the long tidal river Since: Nov, 2010
watching down on us
#13: May 7th 2011 at 10:56:11 AM

Wait, they aren't seiðr practitioners? What are they, then? The stuff that Christianity condemned as witchcraft was actually either pagan religious practices, or seiðr, rune-writing, galdr and the related arts.

edited 7th May '11 10:57:34 AM by annebeeche

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.
Zolnier The Odd Lad from A suspiciously dull shop Since: Apr, 2009
The Odd Lad
#14: May 7th 2011 at 11:38:27 AM

Members of a Witch Species, they're magic isn't really tied to any religion.

Life's Gonna Suck When You Grow Up... But Is It That Great Now?... Also I'm Skylark2 now.
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