This trope needs to go. Badly. I can't get people to watch Waltz With Bashir because of it.
I get given these sad, pitying looks when I say it's a serious war documentary. "But it's animated!"
edited 1st Jun '11 9:41:06 PM by Bur
I'm a huge fan of animation, and I hate the Animation Age Ghetto as much as anyone, but let me ask you this: what kind of story WOULDN'T you want to see animated? What should be the deciding factors when creative folks decide whether or not a story should be done in animation or live action? Is it just a matter of who is doing the telling (i.e. if a writer is telling a story, he/she will write a novel, a live-action filmmaker will make a live-action film, and an animator will animate)?
It's funny, as much as Disney gets grief for being cutesy and tame, Walt Disney railed against the Animation Age Ghetto, too, though in his case maybe it was more the Hollywood production code. Look at all the Disney films where the villian dies in some horrible fashion; hell, in Pinnocchio, naughty little boys are turned into donkeys and stay that way, and none of the villians are brought to justice. Disney did fairy tales not because he thought animation was for just for kids (or that fairy tales were just for kids, either) but because he thought his medium was uniquely suited to the fairy tale's flexible reality. That, and most of them were public domain...
I hate this trope as much as everyone else. It's hard to watch any cartoons such as pre movie-Spongebob Squarepants, Courage The Cowardly Dog, and South Park without someone bragging to me about how I've got not tastes or maturity just because I like animation. There's someone I know who doesn't watch South Park only because he felt the show looked childish because he saw a poster of it. That is truly a shame.
Truth be told, I think both sides take the whole thing a little too seriously. The Moral Guardian types who advocate the Animation Age Ghetto are more irritating, but I think the people who go to absurd lengths to find questionable evidence that the kids' show they like is "obviously actually for adults" are missing the point. I mean, if one wishes cartoons to be taken seriously as a medium adults can enjoy, the solution wouldn't be to pile sex and violence on top of it. That would do even less for animation's reputation ("Animation? Ha! It's for little kids and weirdos who like dismemberment scenes.").
Fortunately, there can't be many people who believe that the medium can be taken seriously unless it's essentially the cartoon version of Hostel. If anyone asked me to name a "mature" cartoon, I'd point them at Gargoyles.
As has been said, animation is just another medium, like live-action televesion or films. It's too bad that there seem to be two "acceptable" genres; kids' cartoons and comedies.
Those guys are probably their own worst enemies, to be honest, because they're the sort who have a very particular attitude towards anime (most commonly, that it's all for adults, ignoring what I assume are different cultural standards between Japan and the western countries) and don't want it to be marketed to children at all.
You know, the most ironic thing about people whining abut the Animation Age Ghetto and pulling anime as an example of how things should be is that there is a Ghetto in Japan. Granted, it's not nearly as severe as in Western nations, and, from what I hear, it's acceptable to like animated shows in one's upper teens there, but still, being an fan of animation after then is likely to get you labeled an {{Otaku.}} Ironically, the Age Ghetto is somewhat the opposite in Japan and America for video games.
This is a signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.I can't think of many personal stories of this but here is one:
A couple years ago me and my grandma were at the house of a great aunt and uncle of mine, and only the aunt was there, I was telling her about shows I like and mentioned [[{Chowder}Chowder]] and my grandma said that show was the dumbest thing and said something concerning the potty humor, and he aunt said her husband said he was once channel surfing and saw a kids show and couldn't believe the language they were using. I don't know why I didn't ask anything else, but I'm assuming he saw an adult cartoon and thought it was for kids because it was animated, though he could have just saw an actual kids show where they said stuff like idiot and fart and find those shocking to be in a kids show.
Also a milder version, my mom certainly doesn't believe in the ghetto, but I was four when I got a tv in my bedroom and had cable, and i knew to stay on the kids channels. And she said the only show I couldn't watch was Ren And Stimpy, so when I finally got to watch it in secret last year(STILL not really allowed to watch it) I really expected something like South Park only maybe even grosser without the language and most sexual jokes, and Common Sense Media rated it iffy for 13 to 15. And when I did see it I was highly disappointed that it wasn't much worse than a lot of current stuff(this was before Regular Show and Adventure Time) and I really don't think it's nearly as gross as my dad who loves it acted like it was.
Anyway there was a point when she tried to review a couple shows but mostly she seemed to act like anything on the kids channels I would try to watch was okay and that I knew to stay away from action cartoons. Also I thought everything on tv must be fake, and seemed to have a mental filter against violence because when I watched shows like The Power Puff Girls in recent years it was far more violent then I ever recalled.
It's a disease, and the #1 reason animation will rarely, if ever, flourish in America, as it has in Japan (Not like I want our stuff to be like Japan's, though, seeing as I don't like 98% of anything from Japan - we need our own style).
This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
I'm fine with animation not flourishing in the west* , but I'd like it if there was a good, traditionally-animated movie in the States at least once per 6 months.
Also, I'm fairly sure America has it's own animation style(s). To me, at least, there seems to be some familiarity in the art styles of Gargoyles and X Men Evolution, for one.
edited 17th Oct '11 7:22:15 AM by Enzeru
How can you say animation shouldn't flourish in America, when it has the potential to, like Japan, especially IMHO how it could give Japan some healthy competition and Americans some much needed work for those who need it and want to get into this industry?
Please explain, 'cause I'm not following your logic too well.
edited 17th Oct '11 10:45:04 AM by LostAnarchist
This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacioJapan has the Otaku Ghetto.
Because of the retarded business practices Japan animation does (Sell DV Ds for your first born child, rely on silly toys to break even) pretty much the only people willing to buy anime are creepy otaku.
Beforehand, it used to be that the Japanese knew about the stereotype Americans have of them, being creepy nerds who only like fanservice in their shows. NOW, not only have they given up trying to fix that stereotype but actually PROFIT from them, because they realized that those kinds of viewers are the most willing to buy their shows and use it as a as lifeline! They have essentially become the blown-out exaggeration that they tried to avoid!
edited 17th Oct '11 12:33:40 PM by kyun
And ![]()
- Oh.... Well ,at least with what you two pointed out, that kind of justifies my hatred of 98% of Japan's anime fare... But it doesn't justify that we (Americans, Canadians) could be taking a page from them and being more productive in terms of our animation (for the sake of job creating and giving people a chance to work, and enjoy it if they want to get into this mess)... just as long as we don't copy Japan and do things only for fanservice!
Other than my pointelss ranting here, I'm sorry to hear all this... This ghetto trope though it exists, still hurts. And not just America(surprise, surprise!).
edited 17th Oct '11 2:08:27 PM by LostAnarchist
This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio@Lost Anarchist: I'm fine with animation not flourishing in the west is different from animation shouldn't flourish in America. I'd love it if animation became more and more abundant (and well), but I'd rather have just a little more animation than sitting around whining in our current situation about how it's not all over the place.
Yeah, there's that, to be honest. And thanks for replying:
It's best we do get a small percentage that's overall decent to awesome, than a really huge abundance, where a majority of it is just shit.
My complaint is toward a bad economy - it's one way to get Americans back to work if possible to bring up an extreme thought/ideal solution on my behalf. However, I see where you're coming from and mostly agree.
edited 17th Oct '11 9:02:34 PM by LostAnarchist
This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacioOne thing I find really ridiculous about the Ghetto is how people don't realize what a useful medium animation is. Instead of spending tons of money on special effects, props, costumes, etc to make a live-action scene look good, you can just draw it! Instead of searching for the perfect actor who looks, sounds, etc just like the character you've imagined, you can have complete freedom with designing the character, leaving the only worry to be choosing a suitable voice. I could go on.
Until more people in the film and TV industry realize this, money will be wasted and creative freedom severely limited when they try to portray their idea with live-action.
This is not meant to diss live action; I'm just saying that it's not always the best medium.
your constant harassment of the female gender makes me sick![]()
and
Doing the less ricky thing, in reality, IS costing more money and lacking of creativity in general. But it reeks of cowardice (at best) and stupidity (at worst), that's for sure!
edited 20th Oct '11 4:39:57 PM by LostAnarchist
This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio
No, that's not what I meant at all. It's just sometimes a better medium to express certain ideas/plots. I think directors should consider which would be more suitable, rather than always use live action as the default for serious works and completely ignore animation. Both have tons of creative possibilities.
edited 20th Oct '11 5:42:02 PM by dwarfstar
your constant harassment of the female gender makes me sick@ Slow Teddy
Don't remind me, especially if it's anime. And no, don't think I'm singling them out! Western efforts suffer from this backlash more anyway...
This is where I, the Vampire Mistress, proudly reside: http://liberal.nationstates.net/nation=nova_nacio

I have to agree with. Animation Age Ghetto is a stereotype I'm getting sick of. Even shows that are labeled as Children's Entertainment often get adult jokes past the radar. Some good examples of that would Animaniacs, Adventure Time, and definitely Regular Show. I believe that animation is meant for everyone, not just kids.
edited 1st Jun '11 7:55:13 PM by HappyComputerist
Un-frickin-touchable.