If you have ancestors that evolved in the ocean Aquaman can access you limbic system and give you a seizure.
That really doesn't single anyone out then does it.
Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.Where's that /co/ picture of Aquaman riding Cthulhu, QUICK
Was Jack Mackerel. | i rite gudAquaman is a shining example of one of the faults in the modern comics industry; the older characters were written and conceived in a VASTLY different time than today. We are so desensitized that the idea of controlling a shark via mind control seems boring and mundane to us. Even so, Aquaman was always at the bottom league of the JLA from the beginning.
Don't you know?Meh. IIRC, so was Wonder Woman.
The main problem is that the casual reader doesn't give a shit about the water. If it's not happening to everyday people in a somewhat relatable setting, who gives a crap if Atlantis gets destroyed?
By that logic, though, the cosmic books shouldn't sell worth beans- the Lantern Wars, the Annihilation event (or whatever it was called), the Infinity Gauntlet, the Dark Phoenix saga... none of that should have gotten past the planning stages.
The trick, I think, is to get a writer who knew what they were talking about. Given that those who want to get into writing comics don't seem to end up at sea very much (unlike a lot of prose writers), Aquaman is kind of languishing. It's not like there's no market at all- Master And Commander did well enough at the box office, for example- I think Aquaman's book just needs the right writer (I mean, who would have thought that Iron Fist would have gotten an awesome revival, for example?)
Well, not helping your first statement is the fact that cosmic Marvel is a hard sell. Don't forget that Annihiliation literally revived the cosmic stories and characters from a very, very long hiatus. However, the difference between space and the ocean is that you can do anything you want with a fictional galaxy, planet, or star system. The ocean still takes place on Earth, and Aquaman still has to pull his weight in regular JLA events. Unless every enemy is, for some reason, attacking the ocean, you have to invent reasons why Aquaman's talking to fish is useful.
Other than that, I agree. You need someone who knows a little something about how exciting sea life could be in order to do a character like Aquaman justice.
Or, you just need someone who can get by on sheer Rule of Cool.
edited 23rd May '11 8:09:42 PM by KingZeal
"Unless every enemy is, for some reason, attacking the ocean, you have to invent reasons why Aquaman's talking to fish is useful. "
Because ordering whale to throw itself at the villain never hurts.
Keep in mind that most crap the JLA fights can rip through flesh, regardless of the amount of mass behind it. I know Aquaman beat Namor by throwing a killer whale at him, but I'm gonna chalk that up to Namor being dehydrated or something.
I'd chalk it up to lousy writing but thats just me. Personally I wouldve preferred to see these two played as ideological opposites and see them discuss their kingdoms and their relationships with the surface world. I can just imagine Namor looking out a window in some underwater castle talking about the pathetic humans while Arthur tries to defend them.
Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.I suspect that in this day and age, when sea travel isn't clearly important* to most people's lives, Aquaman can't carry a comic on his own. He'd be better off as a supporting character in the DC universe; like, if Superman goes up against international smugglers, he could call in Aquaman to help hold up their shipping.
Aquaman could also work as a backup feature for a more popular comic, but I'm not sure if DC does backups any more.
Ukrainian Red CrossExcept most of the things that make tales of high seas adventure exciting don't really work with Aquaman.
Is the ship he's on sinking? He can just breathe underwater.
Is he lost at sea or stranded on a desert island? He can just swim at supersonic speeds 'til he finds something.
Is a huge storm tearing across the sea? He can just go deep into the ocean depths.
Is he sent down into the crushing depths of the ocean? He can just keep breathing normally.
Is he beset by sharks, whales, giant squids, and other nasty sea beasts? He can just tell them to leave him alone.
Fact is, in most stories of excitement at sea, the sea itself is usually a prime antagonist, either with the dangers it presents or with the way it isolates people from civilization. Take that away, and the sub-genre loses most of its appeal.
"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara HarukoThen you just let reader see him through the eyes of normal person. Mike Carey once said that this is the best way to write incredibly powerfull characters - to show how normal people see them. For example, you write a story about sailor being lost at the sea and Aquaman saving him, seen from the perspective of the sailor. It really worked for Aquaman in that issue of Brave and Bold by JM Straczynski, where we have narration of normal sailor to feel connected and anticipate Aquaman's powers.
By the way, do we have trope for that?
edited 26th May '11 6:49:38 AM by PrimoVictoria
I think so. It's related to Mook Horror Show in a way.
Fight smart, not fair.I'm gonna make YKTTW and see if something's gonna poop out.
Okay, look. It's not that Aquaman's powers are useless. They're clearly not. It's that they're boring. I'm sure a lot of people will say that's just my opinion, and they're right, but it's clearly a lot of other people's opinions as well. That doesn't make the legions of us who don't care much about Aquaman objectively right that he's a lame character, but it goes a long way to explain why he can't seem to support his own title for any significant stretch of time anymore. He just doesn't appeal to a lot of people. To make him cool, you'd pretty much have to make him the Sub-Mariner, and there already is a Sub-mariner.
Why would you have to make him the Submariner?
We could also make him Hercules.
Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the GreatHonestly, there seems to be plenty of room for amazing stories to tell around Aquaman- I mean, he can get feedback from the fish and sea life- can you imagine what, say, a massive oil spill would feel like to him? You'd get that Obi Wan moment from the original Star Wars movie, except going on for weeks, or even months. Could pretty easily build up a rather interesting plot where Aquaman just bloody snaps, and a sympathetic Atlantis- bolstered by the more extremist anti-surfacer factions- joins him in declaring war on the people that did it. To keep things interesting, it could genuinely be an accident, and Aquaman and the Atlanteans would have to face whether or not they were willing to cripple most of the surface world just to prevent the possibility of it happening again. And that's just a one-off, simple example.
As I mentioned earlier, I think the political ramifications of Atlantis actually existing and having the firepower to back up what they want is fascinating, and the simple fact that Arthur/Orrin can actually get away with running around with the Justice League while being the ruling king could present all sorts of interesting dilemmas- by his very presence there, the League is suddenly a political body, and the things they do are de facto endorsed by the Atlantean government.
Other interesting stuff... assuming that Aquaman has the brain capacity to process all the information that's coming in, he'd be functionally omniscient within the confines of his own kingdom. Not just Vetinari-level 'I know what you had for breakfast', but 'I know what happens underwater, from salinity levels to the restless stirrings of unfathomable horrors in their ancient and forgotten caves, and everything in between.' I mean, who needs a spy network when every living thing in the ocean is more than happy to tell you what's going on?
Then there's the magic/tech dichotomy in Atlantis- it's been pretty clearly established over the years that Atlantis has some fairly funky tech, but they are also a sorcerous race. Some story possibilities there, I think...
-*shrug* The ocean is a fascinating place- far more so than most people give it credit for, I think- and Aquaman has a fair bit of untapped potential.
I liked Sword of Atlantis with Arthur Joseph Curry, mostly the first half of that series when it was more fantasy based, and I think that undersea fantasy works well for Aquaman. The thing with that is though, it doesn't fit in as well with the superhero universe he lives in. You have to trust that the oceans are big and uncharted enough that what happens in them can be isolated from what goes on the surface.
A good writer would need to realize that there are many different kinds of undersea environments and even more kinds of marine life. This takes some research to do right though, and a lot of times when they don't it just ends up as Atlantis Is Boring. Most surface stories take place in civilization, while under the sea it's the wilderness. If you wanted to write Aquaman more as a superhero like Superman, you would have to greatly expand and explore the underwater cities and have everything set in them, but that just defeats the purpose of it taking place underwater in the first place.
And after writing that I realize that the majority of superhero stories are very much limited to a metropolis and urban areas as opposed to the wilderness. It has to do with the environment. A superhero from the jungles has a harder time in the city, and the undersea wilderness is as far from urbanized land as it gets, more so than outer space.
Thunder, Thunder, Thunder...Maybe they need to have Aquaman start living in Venice or Hawaii. That could create a nice balance.
edited 2nd Jun '11 2:33:13 AM by RavenWilder
"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara HarukoSeriously, man? Necroing a rules violating thread. You should know better.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Im arriving to the party a little late, but no. Aquaman's powers aren't useless. The majority of the writers are. Lets forget the misconception that Atlantis is Boring for a tick and remember that Aquaman can control all marine life, has Superman level strength and has access to the single most powerful navy on Earth that, at any moment in time, can include the likes of Eldritch Abominations and Kaijus. With all this in mind, Aquaman is easily one f Earth's most powerful superheroes. To fight Aquaman is to fight the very wrath of the Ocean itself.
^You would make a Aquaman writer :)
edited 14th May '11 1:03:19 AM by AtomJames
Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.