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Why are we using custom titles for renames?

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nuclearneo577 from My computer. Since: Dec, 2009
#1: Apr 25th 2011 at 12:10:48 PM

Yeah, I thought he only point of it was for killing ptitles. Why is it being used for renames?

Unknownlight Since: Aug, 2009
#2: Apr 25th 2011 at 12:26:16 PM

Because it's convenient. We're not supposed to do it, but the alternative is crawling through the wiki and manually change every single wick, which is done eventually but not right away.

If you want to change the wicks, go ahead.

edited 25th Apr '11 12:26:55 PM by Unknownlight

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#3: Apr 25th 2011 at 12:27:02 PM

It's normally not. I think the Artistic License thing was a one time deal.

Fight smart, not fair.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#4: Apr 25th 2011 at 12:28:29 PM

Convenient or not, it mess up with the wiki. Loads of phrases now make no sense, thanks to it.

edited 25th Apr '11 1:04:48 PM by Heatth

Unknownlight Since: Aug, 2009
#5: Apr 25th 2011 at 12:44:18 PM

I personally think a page should be moved as normal, the old title be left as a redirect and keep the redirect's old title.

As [up] said, the Artistic License rename screwed up a lot of phrases.

edited 25th Apr '11 12:44:40 PM by Unknownlight

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#6: Apr 25th 2011 at 1:52:29 PM

One of the purposes of the Custom Titles system was to make renames as easy as doing a custom title. You are also supposed to put in a redirect with the new title so that people will start using it. A full move is optional now.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#7: Apr 25th 2011 at 1:57:10 PM

Yet, it completely mess up with the wiki, as I said. Using it to short cut renames is a bad idea. It should be only used if the custom title is similar to the normal title. Changing for something completely different makes a mess.

KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#8: Apr 25th 2011 at 2:39:00 PM

^^ The problem with that is that people might add the new titles to indexes or such, when it's actually a redirect. It could also lead to alphabetization errors for people who edit from the source rather than the preview. Like others said, it could also lead to a lot of wicks that need to be cleaned up.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#9: Apr 25th 2011 at 2:50:57 PM

Custom title renames also preserve the old title in the URL.

KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#10: Apr 25th 2011 at 3:05:05 PM

Unfortunately, not everyone looks at the URL. In the past, for indexing, there's been no reason to except for ptitles.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#11: Apr 25th 2011 at 4:22:53 PM

[up][up]Is this a good thing? This only lead to more confusion.

DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
#12: Apr 25th 2011 at 4:42:27 PM

This is helpful for editors because it magnifies the mistakes and makes it easier to fix.

But this is really confusing for readers, and I think readers are more important.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#13: Apr 25th 2011 at 8:04:01 PM

This makes it harder on everyone except the person doing the move. Readers get left with a mess that requires a fair bit of wiki-knowledge to make out. Editors have to deal with the fact that the source code and the output are suddenly very different. I'd say doing this causes more problems than it solves

KrisMahai Hm? Since: Jan, 2013
Hm?
#14: Apr 25th 2011 at 8:10:49 PM

Agreed. And people doing all the work for a manual rename generally don't mind doing it.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#15: Apr 26th 2011 at 6:46:51 AM

Disregard. Read an above post in reverse... waii

edited 26th Apr '11 6:47:41 AM by SilentReverence

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
ThatHuman someone from someplace Since: Jun, 2010
someone
#16: Apr 26th 2011 at 7:51:57 AM

Why can't we have bots for this wiki? That would be a quick way to change links. I remember somebody mentioning something about how trying that "did bad things to the server" but, what things exactly?

something
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
ThatHuman someone from someplace Since: Jun, 2010
someone
#18: Apr 26th 2011 at 8:30:17 AM

[up]Are bots that hard to write and program? What makes this site harder to make bots for compared to MediaWiki sites? Note:I have no idea since I'm not familiar with that kind of stuff

edited 26th Apr '11 8:43:12 AM by ThatHuman

something
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#19: Apr 26th 2011 at 8:55:23 AM

[up] It's not the writing and programming. We don't have the bandwidth or the processing power to use them on a site this size.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
#20: Apr 26th 2011 at 10:59:01 AM

I say for Accidental Nightmare Fuel, we remove the auto-renamer-ma-jig and make Nightmare Fuel "Nightmare Fuel" a disambiguation page.

I don't know what to do Artistic License X, but it's a makes an even bigger mess than Accidental Nightmare Fuel.

edited 26th Apr '11 11:01:01 AM by DrStarky

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#21: Apr 26th 2011 at 11:43:55 PM

Is this a good thing? This only lead to more confusion.

No. No, it is not, because it undermines the point of a rename. (It's also why this is a terrible way to fix pothole abuse.)

Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
#22: Apr 27th 2011 at 12:31:53 AM

Toss my vote in with the crowd of "using custom titles for rename purposes is bad". The custom title system was not designed to replace rename proposals, just the old ptitle infrastructure.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#23: Apr 27th 2011 at 1:56:03 AM

Well, in theory, replacing changed names was meant to be a function, but it doesn't seem to be working as well as initially hoped in practice.

Stratadrake Dragon Writer Since: Oct, 2009
Dragon Writer
#24: Apr 27th 2011 at 10:50:10 AM

Ideally, there should be a general rename function that copies the text over from title A to B and leaves A as a redirect to B, all in one fell swoop, but that has yet to happen.

edited 27th Apr '11 10:50:20 AM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.
nuclearneo577 from My computer. Since: Dec, 2009
#25: Apr 28th 2011 at 10:07:42 AM

As far as I know, we have used this to rename Nightmare Fuel, The You Fail X, and If You Know What I Mean.

WikiDevelopment: CustomTitleRenames
4th May '11 9:28:09 AM

Crown Description:

Thoughts on whether the custom title request feature should be used to perform renames on existing tropes.

Total posts: 57
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