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BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9201: Dec 21st 2012 at 11:29:33 AM

I prefer Aura (and its variants). Fighting's "Aura" is basically a psychic ability, so putting it in the same category as Psychic-type powers makes sense.

Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#9202: Dec 21st 2012 at 11:31:36 AM

Wolf: But that leaves out both varieties of Obscura.

Tagg: I don't see how "Expanded Aura" is scientific. Or why it needs a "scientific" name to be an "official" name.

edited 21st Dec '12 11:43:28 AM by Eskay64

strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#9203: Dec 21st 2012 at 11:48:59 AM

I don't really like Silent's names either. I'm fine with just Aura or Expanded Aura though.

Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#9204: Dec 21st 2012 at 11:53:41 AM

I guess I'll explain my reasoning for being so strongly opposed to having "Aura" in its name.

Look at the Unova Elite Four, for starters. It's composed of all four aforementioned types. It also happens to be the only E4 which doesn't have any specific order; they're all equal. There's no "leader" to them, and there shouldn't be. (Note I'm not talking about the Champion.)

Same goes for this. There's no "strongest" out of all of them. Aura is already the "Fighting" form of it; having "Aura" also be the general term makes Fighting!Aura seem like it's superior to the rest. And it's not.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9205: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:05:03 PM

I don't think that's the implication at all.

Besides the fact that the name is derived from the games in the first place.

crowlover from a Jolly Caucus Race Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#9206: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:17:30 PM

I think it would actually be kind of funny if they were trying to decide this in-universe too.

Maybe "Aura" was the first of these things to be more properly documented, then people noticed Psychic, Ghost, and Dark type things that were similar, so they lumped them together. (I'd make a bigger case for the original term favoring Psychic-type stuff, but that's for something else...) And maybe the scientific community is still debating what the proper term should be, and whether to lump Fighting and Psychic-type into one group or split Ghost and Dark type Obscura. Maybe even have some PEFE Interns get into a fight over what it should be called.tongue

"Don't worry, murder is a sign of affection." - An amalgamation of Dunsparce
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9207: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:19:38 PM

I view it more like the Force, except instead of a Light Side and Dark Side, they're called Aura and Obscura. Since the energy in Special Fighting moves is kind of esoteric, and hard to define, compared to Psychic powers, it got stuck with the generic "Aura" tag.

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#9208: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:20:06 PM

But Eskay, they're all Aura, so the name stays. The reason we (meaning the PEF Eers in the pokedex chat) originally came up with the term Aura to encompass everything was that thanks to a certain BP article, we noticed that Aura (Or "Wave" in Japanese) encompasses more than just Fighting type moves like Aura Sphere and Force Palm, and included moves such as Dark Pulse and Dragon Pulse (Though admittedly, we haven't quite figured out where that would fit on the table. I remember talking a bit about making a secondary chart for stuff like Dragon Pulse and Energy Ball, but it didn't go much of anywhere).

[up] [up] That's...basically how it went down in chat when it came down to theories, though I'm probably the only person who remembers that. (The curse of having a memory like mine, makes everyone else seem like my sister with her abysmal long-term memory. >_>)

edited 21st Dec '12 12:30:13 PM by rmctagg09

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#9209: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:23:23 PM

...I'm getting the feeling that everything I say is doomed to get shot down by technicalities...

So instead, I'll just go back to my initial argument: It's confusing.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9210: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:28:50 PM

I'm not seeing it, personally. Especially since it can easily be modified with the actual Type (i.e. "Fighting-Aura", "Ghost-Obscura", etc.).

Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#9211: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:31:57 PM

You know what, nevermind. It's clear that it's not a problem to anyone except for me, and I've just wasted hours of my time which could have been used for something productive.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9212: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:33:13 PM

I wouldn't say it's a waste. Discussion of things like that is important. Just because there was no action on the suggestion doesn't mean it wasn't productive.

Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#9213: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:48:40 PM

...Sorry, needed a second to calm down.

Anyway...

The problem I'm trying to get people to see is, "Aura" is too uncertain a term. There's Aura as the general term for Fighing!Aura, Psychic, Ghost!Obscura, and Dark!Obscura. Then there's your new suggestion that Aura could apply to Fighting and Psychic, as the "opposite" of Obscura. Then there's Fighting!Aura itself, which is the only one of the four which is actively referred to as "Aura".

The problem lies in the number of things the word "Aura" could apply to. I'm trying to get us to agree on a simple term to use for the collective, to avoid the confusion. A simple term that can't be mistaken for one of the units.

In my opinion, "Expanded Aura" isn't a simple term; Tagg said he resorts to shorthand instead, and I had to ask how it was any different from the unit.

I liked Silent's suggestion of "Enteria" because it did exactly that: provided a simple term which couldn't be mistaken for any of its units. I'd gladly listen to any other suggestions, but the only other suggestions were what I was trying to avoid.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9214: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:53:19 PM

Aura isn't the catch-all for all four. As far as I know, it's only used to refer to Fighting and Psychic energy. The only difference between Fighting and Psychic Aura is how they are used (much like how a Force Push and a Mind Trick are both still the Force).

Obscura is the same for Dark/Ghost.

crowlover from a Jolly Caucus Race Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#9215: Dec 21st 2012 at 12:54:47 PM

@Eskay I do understand your point, but it doesn't bother me quite as much as it does you.

Personally, I'd be in favor of something like Aura being the blanket term and having "Luma" or something like it as the term for the Psychic and Fighting-type things, so Psychic!Luma and Fighting!Luma rather than Psychic and Fighting!Aura.

The rest of you don't have to use this by any means, because, though it would be nice if we could come to a consensus, it would be kind of fun if we don't and just use our own terms for it as long as everyone else understands what we're talking about.

"Don't worry, murder is a sign of affection." - An amalgamation of Dunsparce
Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9217: Dec 21st 2012 at 1:04:45 PM

I am paying attention. I just don't think that we've ever, in practice, used Aura as the term for all four.

strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#9218: Dec 21st 2012 at 1:06:09 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it's been specified most of the time what kind of Aura was meant.

Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#9219: Dec 21st 2012 at 1:08:23 PM

Well, then, I guess that's something we need. A way to refer to all four.

And so, I point back to Silent's suggestion.

Edit: I suppose I should have toned that down a bit... Sorry about that. I guess I need a bit longer to calm down.

edited 21st Dec '12 1:13:23 PM by Eskay64

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#9221: Dec 21st 2012 at 1:12:14 PM

It's funny how the human brain is so consistently drawn in to argue matters of terminology. tongue

Yeah, some people, on some occasions, have referred to all quadrants as a whole as "Aura", or the Psychic/Fighting ones, or just Fighting (Fighting being the only canon use of the capitalized term). Yeah, ambiguity is annoying, and if a tidy resolution comes up it can't hurt to adopt it.

But just as Imperial/Metric arguments are not going to change the world, let's not get too hot-eared about this, 'k?

edited 21st Dec '12 1:13:27 PM by Tangent128

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
Umbramatic Meet The New Boss from WAAPT usually, sometimes WHABP or maybe PEFE Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Meet The New Boss
#9222: Dec 21st 2012 at 1:13:03 PM

Agreed wholeheartedly with Tangent.

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Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#9223: Dec 21st 2012 at 1:18:09 PM

I also agree. That's why I took that breather, as well as making that edit to my last post.

But anyway, after seeing my reasoning... does anyone have any objections to using Silent's suggestion as the general term? If so, any other suggestions?

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9224: Dec 21st 2012 at 1:20:29 PM

I'm not a fan of the term. It sounds...I dunno, inelegant? Artificial? I can't think of what bothers me about it specifically, but the general idea is that it sort of sounds like something someone made up to sound cool. And while it would be possible to have that be an in-universe thing too, I think a better solution would be to find a better word for it, that doesn't need to be justified.

strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#9225: Dec 21st 2012 at 1:20:39 PM

I don't think the name really works for me.


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