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We Are All Pokemon Trainers Discussion

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BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#6827: Jul 29th 2012 at 6:31:15 PM

I agree that there should be some sort of standardized entry process, but I have no idea what the bar for it should be.

Anyway, DS, when you wake up, I finished Chapter 5! :) I do like your characters a lot, and they're very natural (although the dialogue can be a little stilted now and then). My only concern at the moment is that the plot is taking a fair bit of time to really get moving. You've hinted at it a lot, and I assume that the arrival of this Elgyem is the kickstart for it, though, so I'm looking forward to chapter 6! :)

Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#6828: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:04:29 PM

So after Silent posted this page, I noticed the significant lack of exclusive Abilities. After thinking for a while, I came up with...

Ability: Avenger

Effect: Increases Attack and decreases Defense for every fainted party member, effectively turning them into a gradual Glass Cannon. In short, the reverse of Moxie.

After some discussion in the chat (and a situation where I implemented it a bit too early, but that's been corrected) we agreed that it would need some discussion in, well, Discussion. So far, it needs suggestion for balance issues, along with what sorts of mons could get it (and how they got it in the first place). So far, we've established that mons like Bisharp, Gallade, Braviary, Absol, and the Sabots could realistically have it.

Thoughts, concerns, questions, and suggestions would be great.

Pentigan Fwomph from The Underverse Since: Apr, 2010
Fwomph
#6829: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:07:27 PM

Maybe balancing by having the effect wind down for each opponent fainted by that mon?

It's clearly a case of backroom political albumizing.
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#6830: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:09:30 PM

-is not a fan of made-up moves/abilities-

Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#6831: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:18:03 PM

Wolf: I understand completely, but if moves like Bubble Shield can slide, than this idea can too, at least after some discussion.

Pent: I like that idea a lot, actually. However, that would probably have to be countered by taking off the Defense decrease.

The rest of you: Silent gave this alternative:

Second, I was thinking that a good alternative use of balance is letting the ability work as an explosive release of energy. For example, the Pokémon would be allowed to power up inside the Pokéball and unleash the avengment on the first opponent he faces, but after he faints it (probably in one hit), the Pokémon returns to normal, or to only +1, status boost

edited 29th Jul '12 7:19:41 PM by Eskay64

memyselfandI2 Dunsparce Cloud from The Biosphere Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Dunsparce Cloud
#6832: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:18:19 PM

Wolf: Agreed (mostly just on abilities), but it seems like a thing that'll happen...

edited 29th Jul '12 7:18:41 PM by memyselfandI2

Dunsparce didn't stop being a thing or anything.
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#6833: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:20:17 PM

Eskay: Not saying you can't do it. Just that I won't give any input.

Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
strawberryflavored Since: Sep, 2010
#6835: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:21:54 PM

I'm fine with TCG moves and abilities, as long as they aren't broken or redundant. Fake moves and abilities are a bit iffy though.

OnionShew Where's my lantern? from London Below Since: Jun, 2012
Where's my lantern?
#6836: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:22:16 PM

I like making random moves and abilities, but I'm not sure how I feel about their WAAPT applications.

Ab luce in tenebras et e tenebris venit lux; altera sine altera esse nequit, deinde nihil nisi concavum sit.
memyselfandI2 Dunsparce Cloud from The Biosphere Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Dunsparce Cloud
#6837: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:29:16 PM

As stated, I like Silent's idea. An ability that can be set up outside of battle should not last long.

Dunsparce didn't stop being a thing or anything.
rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#6838: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:29:22 PM

I don't mind using TCG moves or abilities, or fake moves if they're properly balanced, but made-up Abilities just seem kinda iffy to me.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#6839: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:31:43 PM

Look, we know it's iffy. The point was to get some actual feedback about it. I'm sorry if I seem kind of harsh about it, but I'm getting kind of tired of people saying it's "iffy".

memyselfandI2 Dunsparce Cloud from The Biosphere Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Dunsparce Cloud
#6840: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:34:02 PM

Iffy is feedback. It involves uncertainty, usually leaning towards disapproval.

Dunsparce didn't stop being a thing or anything.
Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#6841: Jul 29th 2012 at 7:37:58 PM

If you disapprove, then say "I disapprove". If you're uncertain, then give suggestions on how you'd like it if it were to happen.

Tropeless Dry Paratroopa from World 8. Since: Jun, 2011
Dry Paratroopa
#6842: Jul 29th 2012 at 8:22:52 PM

If we go with Silent's newest idea, it basically gives every move Retaliate's boost. And then you use it with Retaliate itself, and you get Explosion levels of power at no cost to you.

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Mezzopiano You're shivering. Are you afraid? from That Cold Place Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
You're shivering. Are you afraid?
#6843: Jul 29th 2012 at 8:45:52 PM

What I thought this ability did when I saw the RP post on it was that it would only work if the user is on the field: i.e., it only activates if an ally falls in doubles or triples. This seems like a decent way to prevent it from becoming too gamebreaking.

Do not fear power... fear those who wield it.
Pikaninja7 CEO Misaki from United Sanctuary Since: Dec, 2009
CEO Misaki
#6844: Jul 29th 2012 at 8:48:34 PM

Honestly, I've got no problems with it. I'm not as deep as others to look at this in a meta-standpoint or exploitablility, but all the alternatives thus far look okay. I'd say just pick one of them and roll with it. smile

There is no night without dawn. The sun is always sure to rise.
Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#6845: Jul 29th 2012 at 8:49:49 PM

Another idea brought up in the chat was a cap for the power increase. Preferably three increases. That would prevent the "Retaliate Explosion" that would result from without the cap. Now, if the mon with Avenger had an Attack change beforehand, then it would buff until either their Attack is at +3 or they run out of team members to "avenge", so to speak. And if we go to Pent's idea, the minimum it'll wind down to is +/- 0. If we go with Silent's option, it'll obviously revert to 0 if it's not already below. Thoughts on this alteration?

edited 29th Jul '12 8:50:19 PM by Eskay64

Sixthhokage1 Since: Feb, 2013
#6846: Jul 29th 2012 at 8:51:53 PM

Sounds good to me. </NotGoodWithMetagame-typeStuff>

edited 29th Jul '12 8:52:09 PM by Sixthhokage1

OnionShew Where's my lantern? from London Below Since: Jun, 2012
Where's my lantern?
#6847: Jul 29th 2012 at 8:56:39 PM

So mons that could reasonably have this ability could possess it when caught? I guess I'm fine with that, although I probably won't do anything with it.

Ab luce in tenebras et e tenebris venit lux; altera sine altera esse nequit, deinde nihil nisi concavum sit.
Tropeless Dry Paratroopa from World 8. Since: Jun, 2011
Dry Paratroopa
#6848: Jul 29th 2012 at 8:57:45 PM

The Explosion Retaliate would equivalent to +2, since it's *2. That does mean that it's the same as a single Swords Dance, and it only works on the first turn (or the equivalent of one), so the cap would work very well.

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Eskay64 Since: Nov, 2010
#6849: Jul 29th 2012 at 9:00:30 PM

The how-they-have-it part will be an issue, yeah. "Can have it when caught" would require less justification... but it would also seem kind of like an Ass Pull anyway. Having it be something like an alternate Hidden Ability would likely be a better option.

As for the buff itself, I'd assume it would be calculated by something like x - y = z, where x is the number of fainted allies and y is the number of revenge K Os, while z is the buff.

edited 29th Jul '12 9:05:09 PM by Eskay64

memyselfandI2 Dunsparce Cloud from The Biosphere Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Dunsparce Cloud
#6850: Jul 30th 2012 at 6:03:39 AM

I like making it a double/triple battle buff the most. It fits nicely with the post made involving it, and it gives mons with the ability a new niche in battle, rather than just "perfect revenge killer." Especially considering that most of the mons with this ability have very high attack in the first place, giving them free setup that lasts more than a single move (especially given WAAPT battle physics, where oneshotting is not generally a thing that happens with unboosted moves) risks rendering their standard abilities utterly obsolete. For example, imagine after every mon you defeat, a Braviary shows up, oneshots your mon with Retaliate, and then U-turns away. Kind of a cool tactic in the games, but altogether too exploitable in WAAPT.

edited 30th Jul '12 6:04:11 AM by memyselfandI2

Dunsparce didn't stop being a thing or anything.

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