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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3701: Jul 21st 2011 at 6:40:24 PM

I think the implication here is that it's less of an actual "alternate universe" and more this current world has been forcibly altered. All the people are the same, it's just that their memories and bodies have been modified to fit the changes.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
DarkerShining (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
stargirl93 Snowy from Zemuria Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Snowy
#3703: Jul 21st 2011 at 6:43:46 PM

It would have helped if we hadn't called it an "Alternate Universe " in the first place, Since it's technically an "Alternate Timeline," but I like Anom's explanation.

Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#3704: Jul 21st 2011 at 6:45:56 PM

What is the difference between the two?

Frankly, All the Myriad Ways is actually a Pet-Peeve Trope of mine, and I admire Fringe for being one of the only shows on TV to treat people in an another universe as actual people.

And again, call it what you like, but, for instance, AU!Luke and AU!Cyndaquil have a real bond with each other. Same with numerous other folk, in the group and in the world.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#3705: Jul 21st 2011 at 6:47:14 PM

Even if it is an alternate timeline. What exactly, excuses destroying the love and frienship that you had with your starter, your mons, your friends, in this "normality" (because that's what *normal* people will perceive) only because you are suppossed to have had another with someone/mon else that could have had been that never was?

[up] Ninjask'd to the core.

edited 21st Jul '11 6:47:43 PM by SilentReverence

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#3706: Jul 21st 2011 at 6:47:27 PM

No, they don't have a "real" bond. They have a bond fabricated by a made-up history. Any real bond they have will have to be gained through their adventures during the time we're there.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3707: Jul 21st 2011 at 6:55:20 PM

At which point, after the AU arc, the best solution would be to find them in the real timeline.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#3708: Jul 21st 2011 at 6:55:44 PM

Well, apart from the obvious issue presented when they do bond over the arc...

How exactly is this "made up" history? I was under the impression that Primal!Dialga altered time?

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
stargirl93 Snowy from Zemuria Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Snowy
#3709: Jul 21st 2011 at 7:03:19 PM

AAAGH.

I feel like it would be better to not do this arc at all....

TracerBullet Since: Jan, 2011
#3710: Jul 21st 2011 at 7:03:41 PM

But if it "happens," how can it be "fake?" This timeline, as warped as it is, is still a series of events, unless if somehow everything up until the minute of our "arrival" in the AU consists of memories of non-existent events.

Also, let me present a counter-example to your BttF example, though admittedly it might not be quite as relevant... MOTHER 3. Throughout the course of the game, you watch as an invading army of time travelling stormtrooper rejects in pig masks turn your home from a (seeming) utopia into a polluted wasteland infested with sins against nature. When the game ultimately sorts itself out through spectacular methods, the world is rebuilt offscreen and everyone gets a shot at it, including characters that are displaced from different points in time... They get to retain whatever bonds they had up at the end... Now my question is, would the outcome have been "better" if only some, or for that matter none of the characters from the old world made it over?

If not, then why is destroying an alternate timeline for the sake of allowing some people, Pokemon, and bonds between the two to benefit at the expense of people, Pokemon, and bonds between the two that would simply not exist in such a timeline any better?

edited 21st Jul '11 7:04:41 PM by TracerBullet

Pentigan Fwomph from The Underverse Since: Apr, 2010
Fwomph
#3711: Jul 21st 2011 at 7:05:00 PM

[up][up][up][up] That is going to lead to some interesting Tear Jerker for me. Because one of the changes in the AU will be that I ended up with a Swablu instead of a Buneary as my first mon. The one I do not choose most likely ends up dead because of an event that occurs in both the normal timeline and the alternate timeline.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:05:10 PM by Pentigan

It's clearly a case of backroom political albumizing.
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#3712: Jul 21st 2011 at 7:15:18 PM

Just to be clear- we're not saying this arc is evil and should be trashed after months of planning.

But, I think we want to ensure that all the AU characters we are about to invest into are allowed to have a continued existence of their own, rather than oblivion.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
stargirl93 Snowy from Zemuria Since: Jul, 2010 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Snowy
#3713: Jul 21st 2011 at 7:16:08 PM

[up]What If Palkia Makes an actual Alternate universe at the end of the arc?

Ok, So from what I'm hearing:

Or:
  • They're technically the same people from the regular timeline with different personalities, memories, and don't exist separately from the main selves, If at All.

  • The main reasons for Not Playing All the Myriad Ways Straight:

    • They'we been in a Crapsack World for a while, and there's still a chance to fix it, as opposed to none if the world is "erased"
    • Those things Still happened, and the Main timeline people still remember some of it, so they might still feel the effects of the bonds. If someone you know dies in a dream, you still feel sad after you wake up, right?

edited 21st Jul '11 7:19:11 PM by stargirl93

Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#3714: Jul 21st 2011 at 7:21:00 PM

Correct, Star. Lava Cookies for you! grin

On you suggestion, not sure if it's Palkia's, Dialga's, Giratina's, mixture, or Arceus's domain, but that is hopefully an option, yes.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:21:16 PM by Tangent128

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3715: Jul 21st 2011 at 7:29:25 PM

I think we're over-thinking it.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#3716: Jul 21st 2011 at 7:39:32 PM

As I've said once about PEFE, Anom, "Overthinking is our surname". Plus, the situation kinda merited it.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:41:11 PM by SilentReverence

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
CalamityJane from None of your business Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Robosexual
#3717: Jul 21st 2011 at 9:10:15 PM

Guys. This is supposed to be a fun story arc. I'm using the MST3K Mantra right now because I know that this arc is supposed to be fun. Stop over-thinking it, please, it's giving me a headache and discouraging me from participating in the AU Arc.

Please consider supporting my artwork on Patreon
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#3718: Jul 21st 2011 at 9:21:02 PM

We know it's supposed to be fun... just, some of us feel very uncomfortable about this, whether due to philosophical views or simply not wanting to waste alternate Character Development.

Can we just agree that Dialga/Palkia/Lake/whoever allows the AU to exist on its own after the arc is over? That's all we're really asking here.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
PippingFool Eclipse the Moon from A Floridian Prison Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Eclipse the Moon
#3719: Jul 21st 2011 at 9:25:07 PM

I agree with Jane's sentiment. The whole idea behind it was "It's a Wonderful Plot", not the ambigious morality and ethnicity behind the mere precense of AU Universe.

I thought the whole AU was an Offshoot Timeline. A timeline simply not meant to be that is always commended to be doomed. Hence why most of the AU Pokeverse is a Dystopia.

edited 21st Jul '11 10:06:20 PM by PippingFool

I'm having to learn to pay the price
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3720: Jul 21st 2011 at 9:26:08 PM

Thirding Jane's sentiment.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#3722: Jul 21st 2011 at 9:30:48 PM

So, is the get-an-appropriate-Legendary-to-help-at-the-end proposal OK with everyone then?

edited 21st Jul '11 9:31:05 PM by Tangent128

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#3723: Jul 21st 2011 at 9:31:32 PM

If it stops the introspection, then yes, it's fine.

Tangent128 from Virginia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#3724: Jul 21st 2011 at 9:33:04 PM

It doesn't simply stop it, it satisfies it. So we're OK. smile

Sorry if things got heated there.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?
PippingFool Eclipse the Moon from A Floridian Prison Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Eclipse the Moon
#3725: Jul 21st 2011 at 9:42:01 PM

Considering characters like DS and Myself are going to be gaining Pokemon from the AU Arc. I think that all the AU Pokemon will have an OT counterpart with AU memories, they just a) Won't be with the group and just remember the friendships they had in the AU Arc and maybe seek out the Trainers in the OT or b) Bellisario's Maxim / MST3K Mantra.

Not that AU Fool will have many Pokemon on her AU team left by the end of the arc

edited 21st Jul '11 9:45:15 PM by PippingFool

I'm having to learn to pay the price

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