We Are All Pokemon Trainers Discussion

I will note that I don't think Enforcing WAAPT forum usage is a good idea, merely offering it as a suggestion that people can gravitate towards.

Likewise, Birthdays and Holidays are casual things that feel like they fit in the main thread. WAAPT Forum feels like it'd work better for more Structured things like oneshots or plot threads you want to have easy access to, those seem like good ways to use it.

I brought up time bubbles as a way for people who want to go stricter with timescale for their own stuff have the option to do so, not as a way to make it so that you don't have to see people who are RPing in a different timescale than you. As a permissive option rather than a restrictive one.

Edited by CorvusAtrox on Aug 31st 2022 at 2:42:48 PM

Edited by BittersweetNSour on Aug 31st 2022 at 5:33:48 AM

Gotcha, gotcha. I will say I still don't recommend having birthdays or holidays there then unless someone wants to have a structured thing for their character's birthday or a holiday.

Edited by CorvusAtrox on Aug 31st 2022 at 2:45:05 PM

Edited by BittersweetNSour on Aug 31st 2022 at 5:33:40 AM

On the topic of what WAAPT means to me I think I derived most of my enjoyment from the fact that it was a safe space and it let me explore aspects of myself I didn't even know existed.

I'm no longer involved in it but I'd recommend it.

8/10 would play it again.

I want to reevaluate my thoughts on the whole time shenanigans thing, but not today. Instead, new character bio time!

Rainbow Rocket: Galactic Division Leader

• Alias: Commander Theia
• Ethnicity: Concealed
• Age: 16
• Appearance: A Galactic-aesthetic suit, with a helmet that hides her hair and the top half of her face, leaving her mouth visible. She is about 5'1, rather scrawny-looking under the suit, and the bit of her skin visible under the helmet is a medium tone.
• Bio:
  • Theia's first impression of Cyrus was at his peak after recreating the world. A man who was already a powerful, charismatic cult leader had managed to corrupt a fundamental aspect of reality itself, a divine figure in his own right. Theia, being an emotionally fraught teenager at the time, saw the message he sent and followed in his footsteps, becoming a Commander of a new Team Galactic. But then, just when he seemed most powerful, he was defeated by the J-Team, and the AU was split off from the OU. Theia was devastated, and wanted revenge, and to bring her leader back. This cocktail of emotional turmoil was perfect for Giovanni, who approached her with promises of exactly what she wanted, and she became a member of the newly dubbed Rainbow Rocket.
• Personality: Theia is brash and impatient, and her teenage naïveté is dangerous paired with her position of power. She tends to issue orders, then jump forward in time to when she expects those orders to be complete, leaving her difficult to make contact with and frequently causing tension when her orders are not followed exactly. As a side effect, her time-jumping means she matures at a Shuckle's pace relative to the world around her, always the same sixteen-year-old nightmare that she was when she first stood by Cyrus's side.

• Species: Alpha Samurott (Hisui)
• Name: Lanius the Second
• Bio: Though not related to their namesake by blood, Theia obtained a Samurott from the days of Hisui, with the intent to strike the same sort of fear in her enemies. Lanius II's concept of the Vow is shaky at best, as a product of the time he lived in, and being directed by Theia hasn't especially given him a sense of compassion, but in truth, he is not nearly as bloodthirsty as his namesake.

I think I've figured out my thoughts on the Time Shenanigans debacle. To sum it up, what bugged me was that even though the 1:1 nature of RP time is an established rule-as-written since the very beginning... it's a rule-as-written that nobody especially adheres to anymore. Which, conceptually, feels wrong.

A new universal method isn't really the solution, though. Some people want to chronicle the passage of time over the decade that WAAPT has existed; others feel the weight of procrastination and delay and FOMO bearing down on them as the gaps between events widen. Putting in place a new rule for one side steps on the toes of the other side.

My suggestion... is to simply not have a rule. The concept of Time Shenanigans itself is outdated, because what it describes is now the default. Time passes at a rate entirely dependent on the writers, not on an expectation of everything lining up properly,

There are, of course, events that explicitly take place in the past relative to events currently occuring, and that's fine. I'd suggest seeing them as they are in other mediums — they're flashbacks. TS is still a fun term to use for them, but we shouldn't be using it for just any old conversation that happens to take longer than a day to write.

This also has a second benefit — character ages are entirely up to the writer. If you write a character like Amber, whose whole concept was a joke about the absurdity of preteens having giant dragons and monsters, you don't need to have them age out of the punchline, or whatever reason you have for their age. However, annual events like holidays and birthdays can still occur for others if so desired. Time can literally desync depending on what you want, and it ultimately Does Not Matter In The Long Run

So yeah. Time is an illusion and so is WAAPT. That's my thoughts now.

Edited by BittersweetNSour on Sep 14th 2022 at 12:54:07 PM

Yeah, seems cool to me. Probably the least intrusive solution IMO since it doesn't change how we're currently operating much

I'm not sure how tenable that age thing is, but anyway:

I was thinking of trying to actually do that School raid on that northern base we've discussed two weeks from now, or even next week if enough people are available since I know a good portion of the RP population also does TTRPG campaigns.

I shooooould be mostly available. I'll swing Rory by if possible.

I should be available, if possibly a bit slow

@ bitty I don't see any reason why your character's age can't be what you say it is

I'm not very fond of generic time shenanigans either—as it stands, I don't really use them

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like most people do? Narratively speaking, no one really writes anyone gloating over how long it took someone to take action, or lampshades the fridge logic of what they've accomplished over the months much, because whatever it is in-universe, it's just a jerk move on the level where all the writers live

Making it fully official instead of de facto feels like a bit of a drastic step, since it rules out things that rely on the illusion of the passing of time, and....paradoxically it sort of draws attention to the whole deal. Time passes, and events happen at the rate they happen

But that is just me

I'm sorry about the FOMO 😦

Edited by Asterisk395 on Sep 15th 2022 at 7:10:46 AM

Time

I pretty much agree with Aster's assessment. I think it would be helpful to know why this is causing you the stress that it is— it may assist in finding a solution for your concerns, because while I'd agree that you're free to do whatever with the ages and events of your own characters, from what you've said about the topic I don't really get the impression that it being a solely opt-in thing would really satisfy you.

Raid

Sounds good to me.

Raid

I figured these were some important questions to have in mind (For this and raids in general going forward):

• What's our goal for what happens during the raid and how does it further our greater metaplot?
• How do we make sure that people whose character's talents don't lie in cracking heads together have a chance to be useful during the raid?

Edited by rmctagg09 on Sep 20th 2022 at 11:40:21 AM

Raid Planning

I don’t think one raid would be enough to bring the arc to a close; perhaps the intent of this raid could be gathering intel and doing away with some of the School’s support or its stronger Templars.

Raid

1. Aside from general personal reasons individual characters might have, have we established anything that makes the northern base particularly valuable/a good target? I know the School is generally decentralized but maybe there's something there that they can't keep elsewhere.

.... Hm. I only have a cursory google search backing me up here but would Snowpoint be a good place for a tissue vault? Most of my logic is coming from "cold place is probably good for keeping the tissue storage refrigeration bills down" so it's probably flawed. But maybe this is where they keep Templar and Schoolkid tissue samples for... whatever reason.

Then the raid could serve the dual purpose of severing the School from some data and gathering it in preparation for a possible Schoolkid cure.

2. Uhh I'll admit a solution for this one is escaping me because my brain is wired to love fight scenes. But I imagine there's gotta be non-fight based defenses the School has in place right? Like maybe we could split the J-team into more organized teams and show more preparation than we normally do? Like a recon team, a hacking team, a muscle team, a tech team, a post-battle "uh oh the cover business the School used is calling us out" diplomacy team. So everyone has predefined jobs to do and the raid runner has obstacles to plan around.

Or we go the Blades in the Dark route and bundle those scenes into the raid as flashbacks when we want to show particular things

Raid

Oh, right—I'd been meaning to pick up where I left off with the last discussion. To address what's immediately asked, though...

I like Daydre's idea for what the facility is! It would track with what Bitty's portrayed of it I think, and proximity to the Cathedral Nexus feels like something potentially research-relevant even if it's not smack-dab on top of it.

Regarding the overall narrative of the arc, I've taken this recent post of Dune's (and what I can remember about it from talks with him) as central to the "fighting the School" narrative. Specifically, the School as an entity that can't simply be addressed exclusively by stomping bases the way most Teams are—scientists and Schoolpeople can be replaced as much as facilities, and the J-Team needs to find a way to kill an idea.

Still, the loss of materiel and material can't be a good thing, and the acquisition of research that could lead to better addressing escapee concerns in particular tantalizes me. I like this raid as a stepping stone toward proactively addressing the School, as well as an indicator of the limitations of this particular approach. This would be my preference for what happens during the raid, as well as how it furthers the broader metaplot.

(Keep in mind that references to how long it's been between any given events there are not recommended, as there isn't really a way to logic around life limitations, and Bitty in particular is uncomfortable with them.)

Regarding other talents being useful, it has been something I've noticed both reading and writing—we write our characters at pretty vastly different levels of 'power'. I've long since abandoned the 'balance'-centric RP model—this refers more to the 'feel' of our characters and what we're comfortable writing them doing. Some P Cs feel like 'ordinary trainers', whereas others can't be described as anything other than 'juggernauts'.

Personally, my preference in this specific case is the theme of the arc that combat and combat utility isn't all there is—someone needs to shelter the escapees, wrangle non-Vow-adherent wildlife, tend to injury. Support roles are meaningful both tactically and thematically. (The other roles Daydre suggested seem lovely for this. c:)

On the other hand, another issue I've noticed is that characters plain haven't been suited to some plots as they've occurred. Whether they've been so powerful that according to their logic plot shouldn't happen or or 'weak' enough that their writers haven't felt like they could meaningfully take part—it's been a trend going back to the beginning of the RP. Ultimately, the ideal is that if you want to take part in a plot, the character(s) you use should be suited to dealing with it on the level of that plot—not above or below.

Speaking of Plot-Development Things

I'd been meaning to pick up the Reshiram thing again! All the more now that lethality is a hard 'no'.

I have alternatives lined up, if you (collective) (y'all) are comfortable with me spearheading a similar plot, still—a School raid on Alíthea shores with a particular resource they've acquired to bait Reshiram into playing defense and not actually defending the family. Regarding the One Contentious Plot Point:

• I'd heard that Reshiram's 'death' might be acceptable as a temporary measure—reversion to a White Stone but not permanent loss of this self, or
• We could take the obvious alternative, and allow the School to catch her in a Pokéball—this isn't really preferred for the reasons I've already listed, but maybe someone will be more comfortable with it

I'd been meaning to get Reshiram some more characterization and spotlight as she became more relevant, and regardless I'd love to take the opportunity. The aftermath of this event feels like a stellar time to take on the School on the level of ideas: using Truth and just plain truth to spread amongst the Schoolkids that freedom isn't an impossibility, and the School's power isn't absolute. Fighting an idea with an idea that'll tear the School apart from within—and leaving the School unable to replace the facilities that it loses.

I have a few other ideas for leading up to the victory lap, but I'd like to leave some of them surprises. If you ask, I'll explain them in full—whether in D Ms or in this thread.

Edited by Asterisk395 on Sep 20th 2022 at 1:47:51 PM

Raid

As you might recall it's within the same general vicinity of north of the Battle Zone (The Cathedral's nature I figure has confounded the School's attempts at trying to pinpoint the Nexus, most of them are hardly the sorts to bet their own lives instead of the lives of others), but I figure that's why since Kai's escape they didn't pack up and move someplace else, it's simply too important to move.

Alternatively or in tandem, going however long without a J-Team raid may have lulled them into a false sense of security and the first line of defense has been relaxed.

Edited by rmctagg09 on Sep 21st 2022 at 3:59:33 PM

I would be up for either option myself. Honestly, Catching could be an interesting route to go with it but that's me kinda spitballing. The idea of Truth spreading like that would be something that'd be cool to see but also with catching the idea and attempt to get truth under their purview. But that said if it conflicts with what You want out of the story I am totally fine with option 1.

Edited by CorvusAtrox on Sep 21st 2022 at 7:05:06 AM

School Raid

I can volunteer a couple of people for it on both sides:

On the school's side, I have the following people:

• Dr. Circhester because he's due for a let's get dangerous moment
• Oganesson and pals (this might need a bit of finagling before he shows up due to the nature of one of his entourage)

On the J-Team's side are these folks:

• Astatine: Intel person, as he probably knows where said location would be. The extent of his knowledge may require admin/raid-runner clearance
• Stewart
• At least one or two of the Hydrogens
• Professor Yew

Reshiram

Is it odd that I'm more in favor of catching Reshiram than outright killing them? Holding a legendary prisoner has precedent in the franchise and is an actual end-goal for many of the evil teams in canon. There is precedent elsewhere for the School to try and enthrall a legendary for its own purposes, and exploring how it got the means to do so (and how to reverse it to free Reshiram from them) would be a good fuel for a raid.

Heck, someone else beating PEFE to salvaging the ruins of Team Mobius tech, along with the ludicrous black market networks they've undoubtedly gotten their tentacles on allowing them access to previous evil teams' control methods for Olympus Mons, could work to their advantage. For added canon welding, the disarray the Hunters' Guild is on since the loss of Delta could be worked in. Without Delta's clout, the lower-level Hunters aren't as dissuaded to selling all sorts of contraband to the School anymore.

Whatever the case may be, I remain partial to the idea that however the School gains a victory here, it manages to do so on the grounds that it has sown the seeds of its own destruction in the process. Whatever it does to Reshiram ought to leave a critical weakness wide open, even if it isn't readily obvious on the first reading. But that's just my take on it.

Reshiram

I'm cool with Reshiram being captured or forced into "hibernation/stasis"

Raid

Thinking about it, what I most want from this raid is... Actual plot progress with the School arc. To quote Tagg it's been kind of stuck in an endless now for a while and I'd like to see an actual push toward a conclusion - though I think the Reshiram thing as it stands now can also help with that.

As for non-combative help from the raid, well, what does this base have to offer that can be sabotaged? :P

Edited by Umbramatic on Sep 21st 2022 at 12:55:05 PM

Actually, the idea of wrangling non-Vow adherent wildlife sounds fun, I'd be down for that. Probably Maggie if anyone.

As for another off the walls idea: On the idea of trying to kill the School with an idea and suddenly thinking of the time RP!Daydre went around drawing dicks on the walls of the Neo-Flare base... I was actually thinking of doing something like that again but intentionally and trying to get the kids to rebel. Like by seeing if any of them will take to freedom by drawing crude things or cool S's around the facility. Honestly they'd probably need to be protected after this but I think if the goal is to kill it with an idea, then encouraging rebellion and lack of rigidity would be a fun way to do that! If this idea gets off the ground I will probably have Hae-Won be a part of it

 Graffiti To Bring The World Revolution 

Obviously I'm in full support. o3o

 Comeuppance 

JG: ...reading it over, I'm not entirely sure what you're assuming, here? If it sounds like I'm proposing an event entirely detached from the narrative arc, I apologize—it is my intent that what occurs will be relevant to the eventual triumph.

Crow's Ideas

IN FULL SUPPORT

I would be willing to have Mitchell and his team involved in the raid in some manner. I am flexible regarding the exact role he will undertake in the raid, whether it involves assisting the J-Team in their attack, assisting the School in their defence, or simply being caught in the crossfire between the two groups.

I am in support of Crow's idea for encouraging a rebellion among the Schoolkids.

There is one idea that comes to mind regarding the School's neutralization of Reshiram, whether it be through capture, temporary or permanent death, or some other means. This idea is that, whatever method the School uses to neutralize Reshiram, they will be forced to irrevocably expose their existence to the world at large, in a way that they cannot erase with their usual methods they used through the centuries. Such a consequence, I believe, would serve the purpose of showing both the limits of the School's control over information about themselves and how desperate that they may become in their efforts to defeat the J-Team once and for all.

Furthermore, to tie further into the theme of truth triumphing over long-lasting evil, the irrevocable exposure of the School's existence to the public, and their varied reactions, could shine the light of Truth upon the School itself, exposing weaknesses that had been hidden in their shade of lies and omissions up to that point. For example, various factions within the School may come to blows over how to interpret the School's overall agenda, or personnel in one or more cells may attempt to cut ties with the School over how their actions, and the public's interpretation of them, are at odds with the ideals and objectives they were stated to hold. The cumulative effect of these incidents would be to materially weaken the School's power and influence, and inspire hope in the Schoolkids they have under their power that they can be defeated, in such a way that it becomes believable for the School to be decisively defeated.

This is, of course, simply my opinion on the matter. I will defer to the community's judgement regarding how or if this idea is used.