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[C]: The Money Of Soul And Possibility Control

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Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#426: Jun 6th 2011 at 3:50:31 PM

[up]Assuming that it is 'without hurting the economy'. Weaning Japan off Midas could still sting like a mother - it's just that sending yourselves back to the financial Stone Age happens to be infinitely preferable to letting the world get eaten by Economics Cthulhu.

What's precedent ever done for us?
RiotousRascal Since: Dec, 2010
#427: Jun 7th 2011 at 2:44:54 AM

Well, there's always Adam Smith. It's possible Masakaki may have had a hand in penning An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations back in 1776 - the work that popularised the laissez-faire free-market economies we (and the Midas Bank) know today.

For ultimate historical awesomeness, here's a proposal: the Financial District has always existed, going back to the point when one item was first exchanged for another. In that respect it predates fire, the wheel, agriculture and possibly even language. Various individuals and civilisations have become aware of the Financial District at various points in history. Here are some possibilities:

  • The Mayan civilisation. Collapsed in the 800s-900s AD. Possibly due to its Financial District going bankrupt.
  • Atlantis, of course. Completely destroyed in antiquity by bankruptcy, so that only stories remain.
  • Ancient Rome. Guys like Crassus and Gnaeus Pompeius were clearly Entres. When it underwent bankruptcy, everything that was made possible by the Midas Money (i.e. The Roman Empire) went down. Hence: the Dark Ages.
  • The Roman Catholic Church. Christians were characteristically banned from moneylending, but it's safe to say that this applied to usage of the Financial District. The Church attempted to stamp out Entres, which leads us to...
  • The Knights Templar. Fabulously wealthy, most likely through the use of the Financial District. They were the first major 'Guild' to form, predating the Starling Guild by over 800 years. Destroyed in 1307 by a combination of bankruptcy and crackdowns by the Church and Philip the Fair of France, who was behind on his membership payments.
  • Carthage. The Third Punic War was fought both on the battlefields of North Africa and in the Financial District* . Roman Entres of the patrician class initiated a concerted effort to bankrupt Carthaginian Entres. It worked, and Carthage was pretty much completely destroyed.

edited 7th Jun '11 3:02:32 AM by RiotousRascal

redcynic The Earth King from Everywhere and nowhere Since: Mar, 2011
The Earth King
#428: Jun 7th 2011 at 3:43:07 AM

Tying in with the Mayans and going with the assumption that [C] is based in the very near future, we can postulate that the Mayans were destroyed because they "Dug Too Deep" and knew too much about the true nature of the FD's higher-ups. They were even kind enough to leave a calander showing us when the Higher-ups would make their move as well...

edited 7th Jun '11 3:43:52 AM by redcynic

BYOON~!
RiotousRascal Since: Dec, 2010
#429: Jun 7th 2011 at 4:16:21 AM

Please. That'd be the first thing Keynesthulhu*

would eat. The Long Count as we know it is largely meaningless.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#430: Jun 7th 2011 at 7:34:35 AM

Bear in mind that an FD getting eaten results in a massive Ret-Gone for its parent country that only Entres can properly detect. As a result, it's unlikely that ancient civilisations destroyed by the higher-ups would even have evidence of their passing. Which, come to think of it, might explain Atlantis and other mythical lost civilisations. Perhaps the historians who wrote about them were early Entres?

What's precedent ever done for us?
RiotousRascal Since: Dec, 2010
#431: Jun 7th 2011 at 7:55:58 AM

Ah, but do they? We know that FD Bankruptcy in the present day results in a Ret-Gone, but that may be more to do with how integrated economic systems have become with the real world in the present day. It will remove the Future of anything made possible with Midas Money, but think about it - how much of the Roman Empire would have actually used Midas Money? Back then, money didn't move around anywhere near as much as it does today. What's likely is that only the patrician class would have had access to the FD, and that a total bankruptcy would only remove the things they spent their personal fortunes on, like election campaigns (in the republic days), endowing buildings, funding military campaigns, etc.

This actually becomes Fridge Brilliance after a while. The influx of Midas Money into Ancient Rome actually did result in the Roman Empire lasting far longer than we remember it to have - because those Entres were patricians, and some of those patricians became Consul (or Emperor, later on), and some of those people in power instituted the reforms and the policies and the campaigns that would have made the Roman Empire the dominant power on earth for the next millennium or so.

But then their FD went bankrupt, and suddenly those reforms and those policies and campaigns never happened at all, and the Roman Empire fell apart much as we remember it to have today.

I cannot believe I just spent half an hour devising a way to justify a theory by which the collapse of the Roman Empire can be linked to one of the better shows on the Spring 2011 anime season.

edited 7th Jun '11 7:58:14 AM by RiotousRascal

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#432: Jun 7th 2011 at 7:58:06 AM

Ah, a partial deletion due to a low-powered District? An interesting notion. Though it's equally possible that the exaggerated divide between rich and poor in those days would have given Entres even greater control over their civilisation's future.

What's precedent ever done for us?
RiotousRascal Since: Dec, 2010
#433: Jun 7th 2011 at 8:00:59 AM

Exactly! Prior to the introduction of free-market economies, the effect of Bankruptcy would have been severely diminished compared to what it is today. This lack of effect may have been what prompted the Midas Bank to take action and introduce free-market economics via Adam Smith in 1776. It's also this lack of effect that allows traces to be left behind - traces that could be picked up on by a young Karl Marx studying history at the University of Berlin in the early 1830s. Who then proceeds to talk it over with his friend Friedrich Engels a decade later, and creates an ideological "vaccine" against the effects of Bankruptcy - Communism. As a prophylactic measure.

edited 7th Jun '11 8:05:28 AM by RiotousRascal

KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY
#434: Jun 7th 2011 at 8:03:39 AM

... Fridge Horror much?

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial
LORd Too Good For You Since: Aug, 2012
Too Good For You
#435: Jun 7th 2011 at 12:16:26 PM

Just for the record — is bankruptcy => losing the things you made with Midas Money just popular fanon, or was it actually explicitly stated in-show somewhere? I only recall the characters themselves wondering about what exactly their "future" constitutes.

Please be gentle with me.
Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#436: Jun 7th 2011 at 1:02:41 PM

Ehh. You guys are reaching. I mean, take the references we have in-show to what the FD has done. There apparently used to be a rich country in the caribbean, but it got Ret Goned. And well, I find it hard to believe that every single thing in that country- and now in singapore- was financed using Midas Money. If the partial deletion you're talking about was possible, Singapore and the Caribbean would still exist, albeit in a heavily reduced form.

So we would simply not have heard of any counties that got hit by it.

There's really no need to try to link everything to the FD. Especially the philosophical movements; directly trying to change the way people think isn't Masakaki's MO. He just invites people into the FD, and then sits back and watches.

redcynic The Earth King from Everywhere and nowhere Since: Mar, 2011
The Earth King
#437: Jun 7th 2011 at 2:22:07 PM

Well, yes we are stretching things a bit, but isn't that what Fanon does? I for one am amazed a 1-cour show that isn't even over yet has inspired such major discussion.

As for Masakaki's MO, that may be his MO now, but back when Economics was much more simple? He'd have to be more directly involved, because back then people didn't care too much about making money so much as they did about, ya know, living. By (semi) directly interfering with Keynes and company, helping get Laissez-faire economics introduced and mainstream, Masakaki allows for a massive influx of Entres. After all, suddenly everyone can be an entre, not just rich blokes, because everyone cares about paper money instead of material goods. Then, because everyone can become an entre, not just the rich upper class, Keynesthulu can come and eat whole countries not just bits of 'em.

Yes, I just went out on a huge limb here, but hey, It's Speculah, isn't it?

[up][up] I'm not sure if it's directly stated in Canon, but there's a lot of evidence for it, so I guess we'll call it canfanon. (which makes no sense, I know, but I couldn't come up with a better term.)

LAST EDIT: What is a Riemannian shock? Is it just technobabble, or is it an actual event/thing?

edited 7th Jun '11 2:26:08 PM by redcynic

BYOON~!
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#438: Jun 7th 2011 at 2:28:16 PM

Of course, it's equally possible that the District remained just as hands-off in its early days, behaving like a good economist and offering subtle incentives for people to behave in certain manners. The rise of capitalism and the spreading of economic integration was just a way for Entres to capitalise (if you'll pardon the pun) on the power that the District offered them.

For Smith, for instance, all Masakaki probably had to do was recruit him as a Entre, explain the rules of the game to him (perhaps emphasising how self-interest kept the system happily chugging along), and send him on his way. Boom, Wealth of Nations and a shift in the world's future.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#439: Jun 7th 2011 at 2:34:23 PM

Bernhard Riemann was a German mathematician who had an entire field of geometry named after him and whose theories helped contribute to general relativity.

However, we may be looking at a bad translation here - a more likely one is a 'Lehman shock', in reference to the apocalyptic bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc..

What's precedent ever done for us?
LORd Too Good For You Since: Aug, 2012
Too Good For You
#440: Jun 7th 2011 at 3:13:29 PM

[up][up][up]Itt though that say, Yoga failing a class for his loss doesn't really mesh with that. I don't think he bribed his teacher, and the other possible explanations are sorta far-fetched in the vein of "he had to take extra shifts at his part time job to make ends meet so he couldn't attend enough lectures."

edited 7th Jun '11 3:13:39 PM by LORd

Please be gentle with me.
redcynic The Earth King from Everywhere and nowhere Since: Mar, 2011
The Earth King
#441: Jun 7th 2011 at 4:43:36 PM

So, I just caught up with Ao No exorcist. You know what I want to see? An image of Yoga and Msyu fighting Keynesthulu, and suddenly BAM, Blue Flames, bitch!

It probably won't happen, but a guy can dream, right? After all, it's a pretty strong argument Keynesthulu is a demon

BYOON~!
thriller01 Since: Jun, 2010
#442: Jun 7th 2011 at 4:56:31 PM

[up][up] I guess that when you lose a deal, *something* will happen that would negativelly affect your future (and proportional to his/her total money). Remember when the taxi driver comments that an Entre's house caught fire after a small loss? As Yoga had a small amount, the effect is small.

A still believer in Sa Ga
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#443: Jun 7th 2011 at 7:44:42 PM

It also probably depends on how much you use your Midas account. Yoga, for instance, has barely touched his own apart from in Deals and when buying information.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Roxas Since: May, 2009
#444: Jun 8th 2011 at 12:23:07 AM

Finally caught up after falling behind after episode 2, and holy shit do I love this show.

I've been reading this thread, and I've read some good stuff, but honestly? That scene where we saw baby!Msyu, I thought it was Masakaki talking, not Kimimaro. I don't know, it just sounded more like him to me.

I want to see more of Hanabi and the whole deal with her having a boyfriend. If the theory that she's an Entre turns out to be true, I'm willing to bet she got the position after Ebara went bankrupt.

I'm going to be watching Madoka now, because both this thread and the one for Star Driver have had a lot of mentions of Kyubey, so I might as well see him for myself.

So I'm guessing that the whole wacky theory about the FD possibly being tied to a whole lot of things, this series definitely should qualify as some kind of Common Fanfic source or whatever that's called. Once this series is done, I think I'll work on some kind C/Eden Of The East crossover, because Ato Saizo is obviously an Entre.

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#445: Jun 8th 2011 at 12:26:35 AM

Oh, say, is the fact that 'entre' and 'entree' are phonetically identical likely to have any meaning?

redcynic The Earth King from Everywhere and nowhere Since: Mar, 2011
The Earth King
#446: Jun 8th 2011 at 12:34:33 AM

[up]Um...No what are yo—OH. OH. OH that is genius. hats off to you Hylarn, hats off to you.

[up][up]Well, it does provide a lot of interesting possibilities... Now I want to see a fusion between this and the other common fanfic source.

ZnT/[C] crossover! Louise summoning Masakaki! Holy shit see if we can get Gabriel Blessing or Alfhiem Wanderer interested!

edited 8th Jun '11 12:38:57 AM by redcynic

BYOON~!
Arilou Taller than Zim from Quasispace Since: Jan, 2001
Taller than Zim
#447: Jun 8th 2011 at 12:34:43 AM

Entre is short for entrepeneur, it's a cognate of entreé though (they both have to do with beginnings, an entrepeneur is someone who starts something new, and entreé is the first part of a meal)

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent
fillerdude Since: Jul, 2010
#448: Jun 8th 2011 at 3:44:19 AM

@Roxas C/Eden of the East crossover. Mind = Blown.

While we're at the subject of crossovers... we can have Batman become an Entre.

Sanzenin Mikado too.

... Wait a minute... Holy crap plot bunnies everywhere!

EDIT: Wow, think about a Financial District in Gotham City. Just... maybe the Midas Bank hires Joker to be Gotham!Masakaki, then... Hahaha, I'm imagining Batman say "Macroflation, Pocket change: I WIN!".

edited 8th Jun '11 3:50:55 AM by fillerdude

RiotousRascal Since: Dec, 2010
#449: Jun 8th 2011 at 4:11:22 AM

Batman the Entre: Taking Crimefighting with Cash to a whole new level.

KSPAM PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY from PARTY ROCK Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
PARTY PARTY PARTY I WANNA HAVE A PARTY
#450: Jun 8th 2011 at 4:32:15 AM

Batman the Entre
YES

I can only imagine what Roanapur's FD must be like...

edited 8th Jun '11 4:32:35 AM by KSPAM

I've got new mythological machinery, and very handsome supernatural scenery. Goodfae: a mafia web serial

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