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Is "The Lion King" the trope namer for Surrounded By Idiots?

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neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#1: Apr 13th 2011 at 12:07:36 PM

Surrounded by Idiots

Scar says this verbatim about his hyena minions. Given that the movie he's from is one of the most well-known Disney movies ever, I'm kind of left wondering if he named the trope, but I did ctrl+F of trope namer on the examples list, and ctrl+F of Lion King on the Trope Namers list, and got nothing.

On a sidenote, why aren't trope namers organized by tropes instead?

Micah from traveling the post-doc circuit Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#2: Apr 13th 2011 at 12:09:10 PM

That exact phrase occurs in a bunch of places. IMDB has it in a Voltron episode a decade before The Lion King.

132 is the rudest number.
neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#3: Apr 13th 2011 at 12:44:08 PM

Hmm, I see. So how do we find out what the trope namer IS?

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#4: Apr 13th 2011 at 12:48:39 PM

There isn't always one distinct trope namer. In this case it's a stock phrase that has been used for a long time and doesn't have one distinct source.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
suedenim Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl from Jet Dream HQ Since: Oct, 2009
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
#5: Apr 13th 2011 at 12:54:13 PM

I don't absolutely know this to be the case beyond a shadow of a doubt, but I'd be very surprised if the first recorded use of the phrase was in something so recent as Voltron. More likely it dates back to the '30s, or even to The Zeroth Law Of Trope Examples.

Jet-a-Reeno!
captainbrass2 from the United Kingdom Since: Mar, 2011
#6: Apr 13th 2011 at 12:55:59 PM

[up][up]Exactly. "Why am I surrounded by idiots?" has been a stereotypical thing for evil overlords to say to their henchmen for about as long as I can remember and probably before that.

edited 13th Apr '11 12:56:18 PM by captainbrass2

"Well, it's a lifestyle"
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#7: Apr 13th 2011 at 1:06:21 PM

Hmmm> Google book search results:

The Pall Mall magazine: Volume 28, 1902: the story Cousins by G. S. Street: "I'm surrounded by clumsy idiots and jackasses and fools and imbeciles."

That appears to be the earliest version. It's probably not, actually, just the earliest one GBS shows.

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#8: Apr 13th 2011 at 1:09:56 PM

I didn't even know "jackasses" was a slang back in 1902. o.o

Anyway, I guess this suggests it's hard to find out what the Trope Codifier was... but for Stock Phrases does a Trope Namer have to correspond with that? I recall in YKTTW using "Trope Namer" for wordings that didn't originate with the examples I used, is it improper to use Trope Namer that way?

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Apr 13th 2011 at 1:12:35 PM

Stock Phrases don't really have a Trope Namer as such. The name of the trope is the phrase — it's not named after anything.

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#10: Apr 13th 2011 at 1:15:03 PM

Well, there could be a Trope Codifier such that the other uses of the Stock Phrase could be in reference to a particular use. That's what I was referring to.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#11: Apr 13th 2011 at 1:25:10 PM

Oh, there could be a Trope Codifier for a Stock Phrase, certainly. Airplane is probably the Codifier for "Picked a bad day to stop <verbing>", and Bela Lugosi in Dracula is the codifier for "I never <verb> ...[pause]... <noun>."

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#12: Apr 13th 2011 at 2:48:24 PM

While you can often associate a phrase with an event, it can be difficult to identify the trope namer. Pick any random term and most of the time you won't be able to identify who coined it, like say moutain or ocean, they may have older roots but who was the first?

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#13: Apr 13th 2011 at 8:57:12 PM

Neo, #8: Your comment made me curious so I looked up the etymology. The earliest attested use of "jackass" to mean "a stupid person" is from 1823. In this case, "attested" means "a written work that uses it that way has been identified. It may be in a still older work, but if it is, no one has let the OED know yet.

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