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comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#7401: Jul 19th 2018 at 9:36:28 PM

Joker starts filming relatively soon and X-Force likely won't be shooting until later. Ryan Reynolds is about to film another movie.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#7402: Jul 20th 2018 at 3:47:54 AM

Still find it weird that X-Force is getting a movie. But this is the Justice League thread, so no digression.

Anyway, any news regarding a possible new Superman movie?

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#7403: Jul 20th 2018 at 5:58:19 AM

Sarcasm aside, I really feel like you're looking for flaws where there aren't any.

Those weren't exactly flaws. You said that I couldn't say why I didn't find Batman ridiculous, so I decided to do just that. I'm sure there are 5 people who could disagree with me and say, "nope, the name still sounds ridiculous," but that's neither here nor there. I'll still say that 

But what I'm saying is that the name Batman works specifically because of who Bruce Wayne's is, while Aquaman's really doesn't. It's almost useless as a title beyond branding rights - same with Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, or Wonder Woman really. Do the Atlanteans refer to their king as the "Aquaman?" Batman at least makes sense as a ghost story/street myth criminals tell their children.

I would also add that there ARE relatable elements about Aquaman: the oceans themselves are pretty real for starter, and you have the whole ecological angle which is very much a real problem in reality. And then there's the whole exploration aspect that can makes it fun.

    stuff 

Yeah, but nobody who wants to protect our oceans can summon giant fish/sea serpents to do so, nor command an army to enforce their will - people can buy expensive cars and train themselves to emulate Batman to a much greater degree than they a biologist or sea explorer can emulate Aquaman. Anybody can put on a mask, paint a bat across their chest, and attack a local gang - whether they're successful is another matter.

Few people wake up believing they might become king of some otherworldly kingdom someday. Contrarily, there are a lot of people who wish they could just fight crime, and many who become cops and attorneys (debate the value of our current legal system all you want, I'm saying that people dream big and settle for more realistic substitutes). People who want to be Batman have an easier escape route - weightlifting, studying martial arts, buying expensive cars, studying law and sciences, etc. It's not going to make you be the Batman, but it's a better substitute than going to swim practice and studying different breeds of jellyfish and dolphin.

The idea of a vigilante, the idea of putting on masks for abnormal activities isn't totally far-fetched. I think you'd have an easier time finding people who wish they could put on a mask and beat criminals to a pulp than people who wish they could wave a trident around and rule the oceans. The former is a lot easier to swallow than the latter - being king of the sea is something a child might want to do, but actual marine biologist, or an environmental protection agency probably wouldn't. No, cops don't secretly wish they could be Batman, but would you honestly doubt that most haven't at some point subscribed to the idea of a Batman, the idea of some caped hero who doesn't have to wait for a warrant and catches bad guys for them?

Bruce's story started because a criminal killed his parents. There are a lot of orphans in the world who can relate to that. Not nearly as many people can say they found out one day that they were related to the Queen of England and that they were going to be whisked away to rule the country.

The oceans are real, yes, but Aquaman is as much an environmentalist as Lara Croft is an archaeologist. Yes, Batman isn't anything like a cop, but the idea of Batman is more persuasive than that of Aquaman, the guy who probably commits several taboos against nature when he summons giant whales halfway across the world, pulling them from their natural habitats to fight super-villains or to settle land-sea disputes. PETA would skip the trial, have him put in chains, and tossed down a very deep hole.

tl,dr :

  • Yeah, but nobody who wants to protect our oceans can summon giant fish/sea serpents to do so, nor command an army to enforce their will
  • I think you'd have an easier time finding people who wish they could put on a mask and beat criminals to a pulp than people who wish they could carry a trident around and rule the oceans
  • a lot of people can relate to Batman's origin whereas few can relate to Arthur's
  • I don't think the ecological angle has as much appeal as the edgy, caped crusader punching criminals to a pulp angle does
    • Aquaman is as much an environmentalist as Lara Croft is an an archaeologist

     

If nothing else, Batman having 5+ films and Aquaman just getting his tells me that there's been more demand for Batman in the public eye than Aquaman, and this goes for all of the other characters too - Batman is the easiest to put to film, and the most thematically attractive because he's a human being surrounded by gods and aliens.

That's not me saying "Batman is better and Aquaman sucks"... I mean, it kind of is, but more that Batman is more marketable and I think I can finally state why I've always felt Aquaman is the inferior character without looking at the Superfriends incarnation. Truth be told I've never actually watched the Superfriends cartoon and my first experience of Aquaman was the Justice League cartoon where he was a badass.

Edited by Soble on Jul 20th 2018 at 6:31:44 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#7404: Jul 20th 2018 at 6:05:31 AM

That said, as a kid I wanted to be Goku more than I wanted to Batman or Superman, despite him not being very relatable at all. I didn't read Aquaman comics so f'ck if I know how relatable he is as a character.

Maybe there are people who always found Aquaman more relatable than someone like Batman. If that's the case then I guess I'm wrong - but otherwise, I see purpose in Batman's name, and not so much in Aquaman's. They'd be better off naming him Arthur, just like Billy Batson is better off named Shazam, and Cassandra Cain is Orphan instead of Batgirl III.

Edited by Soble on Jul 20th 2018 at 6:24:06 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#7405: Jul 20th 2018 at 6:17:18 AM

One line that his fans keep using is him protecting 70% of the Earth's surface singlehandedly, despite the fact most of the big threats are on land, human population being significantly higher, alien invasions typically invade the surface and there are several superheroes that operate both on Earth and in space, such as Superman and Green Lantern.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#7406: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:34:09 AM

[up][up][up]And now you're just reversing the argument. I already pointed out above that it was dumb to ask for realism and staying entirely grounded in comic books, of all things. Fantasy Kitchen Sink and the fact you can have over-the-top fantasy and scifi elements is one of the medium's biggest appeal. Characters like Superman and Wonder Woman are just out of reality as Aquaman and they still got popular. Honestly I fail to see where you're trying to go with that part.

If nothing else, Batman having 5+ films and Aquaman just getting his tells me that there's been more demand for Batman in the public eye than Aquaman, and this goes for all of the other characters too - Batman is the easiest to put to film, and the most thematically attractive because he's a human being surrounded by gods and aliens.

For movies, yes. But animated series have no such restrictions. In my opinion, Batman mostly got so many medium because of exposure. He was lucky enough to get the best animated show and DC decided to play it safe by using him and just him most of the time, to a frustrating degree.

ThriceCharming Red Spade, Black Heart from Maryland Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Red Spade, Black Heart
#7407: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:24:21 PM

What exactly do you guys mean by "relatable?" Because, yeah, Aquaman isn't relatable in the sense that none of us can talk to fish, but as long as Jason Momoa portrays him as approachable and human—which I think he did in Justice League—I'm sure no one will be too put off by him.

Is that a Wocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#7408: Jul 20th 2018 at 7:38:48 PM

In this case relatable has less to do with their circumstances or upbringings and more with whether the viewer can understand their state of mind and where they're coming from when making decisions. A literal jellyfish alien whose job is to count purple pods can be relatable if you can comprehend their point of view.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#7409: Jul 21st 2018 at 6:32:44 AM

[up][up]That's actually a good point.

TargetmasterJoe Since: May, 2013
#7411: Jul 21st 2018 at 12:21:23 PM

[up] Holy crap, that was awesome AF. surprised—>grin

EDIT: Apparently, that was so awesome, it got me to misspell "awesome."

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Jul 21st 2018 at 3:24:33 PM

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
Thebrawlbro Since: Aug, 2013
#7413: Jul 21st 2018 at 12:38:12 PM

I’m definitely looking forward for Shazam, and cautiously optimistic about Aquaman.

Corvidae It's a bird. from Somewhere Else Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
It's a bird.
#7414: Jul 21st 2018 at 1:06:42 PM

Those were pretty neat trailers. Shazam is kind of giving me subtle "family-friendly Deadpool" vibes for some reason, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It looks fun.

Jason Momoa was a great Aquaman in Justice League, but his story felt kind of rushed and glossed over, and he didn't have as many lines as I would have liked. It will be nice to see more of him.

Oh, and Children of the Sun is always a win.

Still a great "screw depression" song even after seven years.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#7415: Jul 21st 2018 at 1:11:23 PM

I'm not that impressed with Shazam. The tone is fine, and the elements of figuring out his powers could be fun, but I'm not impressed with the production design. Looking at the costume all I see is a giant LED screen on his chest, in conjunction with the very flat red coloring, the real world settings and the non-CG footage most teaser trailers have and the movie just looked really cheap.

Aquaman looks spectacular. It's definitely giving the "talk to fish" guy his due respect. Most of it looks straight up Star Wars / Lord of the Rings. The glimpses of Atlantis look amazing, what little we see already puts the Wakandan civil war to shame.

Dr.XXX The Mad Doctor Since: Aug, 2014
The Mad Doctor
#7416: Jul 21st 2018 at 1:48:04 PM

What kind of world are we living in when Shazam seems more heroic than a man that calls himself Superman

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#7418: Jul 21st 2018 at 1:52:34 PM

[up][up]Can we not please? If you like the trailer just say so without bashing another movie.

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#7419: Jul 21st 2018 at 2:01:06 PM

[up][up]Yeah Shazam looks like goofy fun. That's something this series sorely needed. The "You're dead" scene had me rolling.

I think this one is gonna resonate with a lot of people. The moment where Billy stands up to those bullies? Loved it.

Edited by comicwriter on Jul 21st 2018 at 2:27:51 AM

Invincibleasshole fuckANN from Not here Since: May, 2018 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
fuckANN
#7420: Jul 21st 2018 at 2:54:57 PM

The trailer for Aquaman didn't use the song "ocean man" 0/10

You're going to pay a price for every bloody thing you do and everything you don't do. You don't get to choose to not pay a price.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#7421: Jul 21st 2018 at 3:31:09 PM

If intended as a genuine complaint, it's not a very good one. It's almost standard of the modern Shazam/Captain Marvel that he is so optimsitic and cheerful he makes Superman look humorless and brooding.

Theokal3 Since: Jan, 2012
#7422: Jul 21st 2018 at 4:04:34 PM

Can we not please? If you like the trailer just say so without bashing another movie.

Agreed. Especially since for all the criticisms done to Justice League, it did make Superman more heroic and more like fans wanted. People seem to keep forgetting that.

Anyway, these trailers both look great and have me excited to see them. For Aquaman, I have only this to say: Armored. Friggin. Shark. Riders. Sign me in.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#7423: Jul 21st 2018 at 5:02:23 PM

Shazam is supposed to be more heroic and cheerful than Superman. And that trailer was awesome. Yes the set pieces doesn't look as impressive as the other movies, but I'm totally fine with them toning down the grand epic that all the movie had.

As for Aquaman, Atlantis kinda giving me underwater Wakanda vibe, but it's the first time I've seen an Atlantis that actually looks cool, so I'm down. Despite that, my favorite moment was with the fish reacting to the bullies and gathered around Arthur.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Jul 21st 2018 at 8:02:19 PM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: Aug, 2015
The Head of the Hydra
#7424: Jul 21st 2018 at 5:08:19 PM

I am so excited for these movies. [tup] [awesome]

I am so rooting for them to do well.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#7425: Jul 21st 2018 at 5:27:12 PM

On the subject of relatability and it being applicable, anyone interested in that should check out the Business War podcast and the segment they did on Marvel and DC. They had a well done piece discussing why Marvel's comics became more popular than DC's beginning in the 60s and 70s, and the main thing pointed to was the fact that the characters, regardless of how powerful and alien they were, dealt with flaws or problems that readers could understand or empathize with. Spider-Man is broke and gets bullied at school. Iron Man is a guy trying to set things right and redeem himself after a lifetime of fucking up. The Hulk is a meek, wimpy guy who constantly gets pushed around and disrespected by people until he loses control and starts breaking shit. The Thing is a normal guy forced to look like a freak. Black Panther struggles with living up to the legacy of his father and maintaining his idealism in a world that is much more cynical and morally ambiguous than he'd like. The X-Men are hated and discriminated against because they were born different from the majority (a major reason why so many real life people of color and LGBT folks like the series). Even Thor, a literal god, has to deal with an extremely dysfunctional family and a father who constantly withholds any approval.

That sort of thing was revolutionary at the time, and something comics as a whole adapted. Hal Jordan struggles with self doubt. Modern depictions of Superman have him deal with the reality that even with his powers, he can't save everyone. Barry Allen deals with guilt over not being able to prevent his mother's death. Aquaman is torn between two world and feels like he doesn't belong in either (a metaphor that many mixed-race individuals can empathize with). And you could write a whole book on Batman's severe emotional issues.

Any concept, no matter how fantastic, can be relatable if it's grounded in some sort of emotion or conflict that normal people can understand.

[up][up]

Edited by comicwriter on Jul 21st 2018 at 5:33:44 AM


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