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Lets take this out of Darth Wiki.: Darth Wiki.Narm

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Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#51: May 11th 2011 at 3:07:56 PM

Surely this is a sign of the immanent collapse of Western civilization!

Fight smart, not fair.
RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#52: May 11th 2011 at 9:13:55 PM

I'll make a new case for why this trope doesn't belong on the Darth Wiki. I ask this site: Is humor inherently negative? The answer is most unanimously no. Is this trope negative because a scene is interpreted differently from what the author intended? Then why are Ron the Death Eater, Rooting for the Empire, and Draco in Leather Pants considered neutral tropes? If Narm is being used as "drama that fails" it has undergone Trope Decay which must be corrected. The true meaing of Narm is "drama that ends up being percieved as funny". It is no doubt highly subjective. The line Who else will I have Ice cream with?' is a case where half think its hilarious and half think its a Legitimate Tear Jerker. But in the same series the Draco in Leather Pants treatment of Organization XIII is a case of Your Milage May Vary. Narm as it defined is simply an interpretation of a work by the audience that is different from the Author's intention. It should be treated as such.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
Nyarly Das kann doch nicht sein! from Saksa Since: Feb, 2012
Das kann doch nicht sein!
#53: May 12th 2011 at 6:49:55 AM

[up] As I see it, the problem with Narm is, that it's filled with Complaining About Scenes (or even entire shows) You Don't Like. As long as it stays like that, there is now hope for getting Narm out of Darth Wiki.

[up][up] evil grin

It wasn't until I read the example from Final Fantasy VI (I snickered when "STELLA!" was yelled out dramatically) that I finally got it.

But the Stella thing comes from Final Fantasy V. I'm not even sure if this is really Narm, it seems to me that this was intentional and not just because it's a Shout-Out.

edited 12th May '11 6:52:15 AM by Nyarly

People aren't as awful as the internet makes them out to be.
32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#54: May 12th 2011 at 7:49:41 AM

[up]Oops... mental miscue on that one. You're right; that's Final Fantasy V. Still, that's the example that got me to understand Narm.

[up][up]I think the problem is that Narm is entirely an audience reaction. For the Draco in Leather Pants and Ron the Death Eater examples, it's just commenting on when people do that in fanfic - whether you think it's good or not, it certainly happens, so it just describes the phenomenon. Narm (and Rooting for the Empire, really) describe the audience reaction... I think both belong in the same section of the wiki. I'd favor YMMV for both, but I can at least see the argument for them being Darth Wiki candidates.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#55: May 12th 2011 at 7:52:30 AM

[up][up] We have "drama that comes off as funny" as Narm Charm. People have been using plain old Narm as "failed attempt at drama" for a long time now.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#57: May 12th 2011 at 10:57:49 AM

[up][up] I thought Narm Charm was for stuff that did NOT come off as funny, or at least managed to have some dramatic effect despite its accidental humour.

nuclearneo577 from My computer. Since: Dec, 2009
#58: May 12th 2011 at 11:01:03 AM

[up]That's what it is. Narm is when it is just funny.

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#59: May 12th 2011 at 11:11:32 AM

[up][up][up] T He issue then is Trope Decay. We need to clean the examples to get the trope back to its purpose.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#60: May 12th 2011 at 12:51:18 PM

Bathos = The author intended a dramatic moment to be funny.

  • This means no accusations of screwing up.

Narm = The author did not intended the dramatic moment to be funny.

  • This is an accusation of the author failing. As such, if it wasn't inherent;y negative, Bathos wouldn't exist.

None of the other articles in post 52 accuse the author of failing that badly - it's impossible to write a character to prevent Alternate Character Interpretation.

edited 12th May '11 12:52:25 PM by SpellBlade

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
True colors
#61: May 12th 2011 at 1:06:47 PM

It's impossble to write anything with a perfect prediction of how an audience will react. That's the point of YMMV.

The Crystal Caverns A bird's gotta sing.
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#62: May 12th 2011 at 1:39:16 PM

Narm is more then simply interpreting the scene differently.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#63: May 12th 2011 at 5:03:44 PM

Narm depends entirely on interpreting the scene differently. Look over at Code Geass 's Crowning Moment Of Awesome and Narm pages. They're all the same scenes—half the audience thought they were awesome, and half thought they were horrible.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
SpellBlade Since: Dec, 1969
#64: May 12th 2011 at 5:07:47 PM

Yup, Narm has to interpret the scene in a negative way.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#65: Oct 11th 2011 at 4:12:55 PM

Well, let's get this one over with.

Is there some particular reason this can't be moved out of darth wiki into the YMMV tropes? Or if we decide that the reaction is too inherently negative or whatever, can we just lock this up?

MangaManiac Since: Aug, 2010
#66: Oct 12th 2011 at 8:48:12 AM

Narm doesn't appear to me to be inherently negative, in the same way that So Bad, It's Good isn't inherently negative (because sometimes the funny can improve your enjoyment, the fact it was meant to be serious be damned). Narm Charm is something that should be Narm but ends up being dramatic anyway for some odd reason. I don't know if that might need a cleanup or anything.

If we do decide it's inherently negative, and decide it needs to be moved to Darth Wiki, it might also be worth looking at stuff like The Scrappy that are a lot harder to argue as positive.

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
MangaManiac Since: Aug, 2010
#68: Oct 12th 2011 at 11:19:02 AM

Why is this in the Repair Shop Morgue?

RhymeBeat True colors from Eastern Standard Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#70: Oct 12th 2011 at 2:19:59 PM

So, was it accidentally moved, or is the issue deemed resolved, but it was never locked?

MangaManiac Since: Aug, 2010
#71: Oct 12th 2011 at 2:55:59 PM

Well, I'd support moving it back and making a crowner.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#72: Oct 12th 2011 at 4:50:07 PM

Ok then. Crowner would be whether it should be moved out of Darth Wiki into a YMMV audience reaction, correct?

Crowner.

edited 12th Oct '11 6:31:10 PM by Arha

djbj Since: Oct, 2010
#73: Oct 13th 2011 at 1:49:07 PM

I support moving this out of the Darth Wiki. I think that if we add a strong, visible warning against misuse to the desciption and clean up any misuse this can work as a YMMV page.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#74: Oct 13th 2011 at 1:54:08 PM

Not excited about extracting this from Darth Wiki. It went there for a reason. Like other tropes in that place, misuse is so rampant that it's impossible to effectively police.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
MangaManiac Since: Aug, 2010
#75: Oct 13th 2011 at 2:10:04 PM

[up]Out of curiosity, do you know when was this moved to Darth Wiki and who moved it there?

SingleProposition: Narm
12th Oct '11 6:29:05 PM

Crown Description:

Narm

Total posts: 114
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