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Protecting Others and What a eyou fighting for? A broken aesop?

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G.G. Since: Dec, 1969
#1: Apr 8th 2011 at 1:54:35 PM

This Aesop is used a lot in shonen but I wonder why is this aesop used a lot? In some shonen, it is quite clear the Hero is selfish blood knight who just wants to fight monsters and makes friends yet the aesop concerns protecting your friends and family. I don't understand it why this stoick aesop is used in shonen.

Signed Always Right Since: Dec, 2009
Always Right
#2: Apr 8th 2011 at 1:57:35 PM

Whats so selfish about fighting monsters and making friends?

Anyways, my guess is, said monsters happens to be a threat to your friends and family, thus fighting said monster is directly protecting your loved ones...and making new friends is just a bonus...and potential fanservice if the friend is female.


Theres a good chance I completely misunderstood your question...

edited 8th Apr '11 1:58:15 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."
G.G. Since: Dec, 1969
#3: Apr 8th 2011 at 2:09:56 PM

I jsut wanted to know why is the question, "what exactly are you fighting for" is used in shonen?

GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#4: Apr 8th 2011 at 2:10:22 PM

Give us some examples.

Lazy and pathetic.
SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#5: Apr 8th 2011 at 2:11:06 PM

[up][up]

Because its usually a pretty important thing to know, right?

Motivations are generally important to characterization.

neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#6: Apr 8th 2011 at 2:12:37 PM

Interviewer: Why do you play American Football?

Hiruma Youichi: Because it's fun.

Answer varies for most fighting genres though.

G.G. Since: Dec, 1969
#7: Apr 8th 2011 at 2:13:03 PM

One example is Judai from Yugioh GX and I forgot his naem from Digimon Frontier who was Agunimon.

chihuahua0 Since: Jul, 2010
SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#10: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:09:09 PM

[up]

He didn't stop to spell-check before he posted.

Thenamelesssamurai from Atlanta, Georgia Since: Nov, 2010
#11: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:12:21 PM

[up][up][up] That's interesting, because what I got from Saiyuki was that the main characters were an emotionally co-dependant and dysfunctional group who weren't role models in most capacities.

Imagine Rakan applying Calling Your Attacks to doing paperwork.~Anarchy Rakan for the hell of it COMMISSION THIS BRIDGE!~EHK
GrandPrincePaulII Imperial knight from Western Eurasia Since: Oct, 2010
Imperial knight
#12: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:20:20 PM

[up][up][up][up]

Do you need a surefire way to get your ass kicked? Run into battle talking about how you have something to protect, and you'll inevitably get the shit pounded out of you.

...

The following are great reasons to fight:

1. Revenge 2. Somebody pissed you off 3. You can get away with it

Is Sasuke absolutely right?

Lazy and pathetic.
SakurazakiSetsuna Together Forever... Since: Jun, 2010
Together Forever...
#13: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:21:15 PM

[up]

Oh christ. Can we not go there?

Chaosjunction Since: Feb, 2010
#14: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:23:49 PM

[up][up]

Not to say the reasons there are really wrong, but that's not it, especially in the Sasuke case. Well, to some it is...

To answer the OP, the aesop is used because on some level anyone can acknowlege it. It's naive, maybe, but it's nothing that people can really deny.

edited 8th Apr '11 3:25:50 PM by Chaosjunction

melloncollie Since: Feb, 2012
#15: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:25:08 PM

Thanks for the link, I got a good lol.

As for the OP: I'm not sure what the question is. Not all shonen is about "protecting others", character motives vary.

Gilphon (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#16: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:25:40 PM

I knew who made this thread before I clicked on it!

But- Y'know, since you brought up Judai as an example, I'll explain using him.

Judai fights entirely for his own enjoyment, nothing more, nothing less. That's just fine for two seasons, but in the third season, he meets a villain with totally legitimate dispute with him; a guy who's truly and honestly trying to help people. Judai opposes him not because of any ideological reasons, but simply because he enjoys the fight.

So we have one guy who's trying to make the world a better place but is being undermined by another guy who's just doing whatever the hell he wants and basically a Blood Knight. And the second is The Hero. The Messiah, in fact!

What we have there is a situation where a throwaway villain legitimately has the moral high ground over a guy who's supposed to be The Messiah. That's unacceptable, from a storytelling point of view, unless, unless you use that. Make the hero question whether or not he really should've fought. Make him realize that you can't just screw over whoever you want just because you thought it would be fun. Make him realize that the motivation he's used up until now simply isn't enough.

Which leads us to situation you described.

edited 8th Apr '11 3:26:16 PM by Gilphon

ThatHuman someone from someplace Since: Jun, 2010
someone
#17: Apr 8th 2011 at 11:44:32 PM

I feel like this whole "I wanna protect mah friendz" is a Seen It A Million Times, but can't really think of good examples. Probably because they came from shows I didn't care very much for. Maybe I heard it in The Law Of Ueki? Maybe Bleach? Argh, can't remember. Yeah, this thread would be much better if somebody can give a bunch of examples.

something
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#18: Apr 8th 2011 at 11:50:30 PM

This Aesop is basically used to distinguish good guys from bad guys in a straightforward way. I mean, otherwise they'd just be two groups out to fight each other. By claiming that one side is fighting to protect, they gain a kind of prima facie moral high ground.

It's no more complicated or interesting than having the villain Kick the Dog.

Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#19: Apr 9th 2011 at 1:20:49 AM

From what I recall, Kira of Gundam Seed started piloting his Gundam to protect his friends who had all managed to get themselves on a military ship being hunted down.

The people he is fighting are fighting to protect their ex-colony homelands from oppressive mother countries.

Grahf Since: Jan, 2001
#20: Apr 9th 2011 at 1:55:32 AM

Inuyasha after getting his heirloom sword the Tessaiga. For a while he couldn't get it out of it's crappy unreleased mode unless he was actually protecting a human. That problem didn't last long.

There were times when Goku fought to protect those he cared about, or the earth at large, but he's just as often been in it for a good fight (the extent of which is perhaps best shown in his actions at the Cell Games, and then sort of after wishing for Buu to come back sans evil).

ThatHuman someone from someplace Since: Jun, 2010
someone
#21: Apr 9th 2011 at 2:55:30 AM

My Seen It A Million Times goes like this:

Bad Guy:How did you survive? How did you find the strength to defeat me?

Hero:Because I fight to protect my friends, I can grow stronger!

Or something like that. Maye it's just some stereotype I've built in my head and I've only ever seen two or three examples like this.

edited 9th Apr '11 2:57:26 AM by ThatHuman

something
Customer Since: Sep, 2009
#22: Apr 9th 2011 at 2:57:53 AM

It's more common in Shōnen and usually more idealistic anime, which is why you've felt like you've seen it so much already.

And I'm questioning how choosing to protect others is a Broken Aesop.*

edited 9th Apr '11 3:02:39 AM by Customer

Arilou Taller than Zim from Quasispace Since: Jan, 2001
Taller than Zim
#23: Apr 9th 2011 at 4:43:11 AM

[up] It kind of becomes so when the "others" becomes a narrow subset of human beings.

I noticed and Interview concerning Star Driver when one of the staff notd that Wako, Sugata & Takuto are the kinds of people who'd blow up the whole world for thier friend's sake.

The interesting thing is how these personal loyalties can just as easily make a villain as a hero.

I do think there's an interesting rift here between different notios of heroism: You rarely see western heroes fight simply to protect their friends/family. They do so of course, but usually becuase their frinds/family are targeted by someone violating some greater moral principle.

Both Spider Man and Bat Man for instance, while being motivated by the deaths of their loved ones, ues it as a springboard for a universal prnciple: "This could happen to ANYONE and it's my job to prevent it."

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent
Grahf Since: Jan, 2001
#24: Apr 9th 2011 at 11:54:46 AM

I think that it's more of a cliche than a broken Aesop. Even though it's a legitimate reason that someone would fight for, it gets used so often that people find themselves rolling their eyes and going "Gee, another guy that fights to protect his friends/family/etc."

This doesn't tend to apply when the protection becomes broader than a group of individuals. No one really rags on Batman or Spider-Man for protecting their respective cities, and you don't see Superman getting sass for constantly saving Metropolis/the entire world in general.

It's just that when it's fighting to protect one individual, or a group of core individuals, that it becomes the thing that seems to turn people off.

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#25: Apr 10th 2011 at 5:11:26 AM

[up][up] I'd say that difference comes down to how stories are packaged in the two mediums. In most American superhero comics, a Rescue Arc might last two or three months; a "villain wages personal vendetta on the hero" story might last six. In manga, it's not uheard of for these sorts of Story Arcs to go on for years. Then there's the fact that even very popular manga series often wrap up in under a decade, while Marvel and DC have quite a few titles that have been running continuously since The '60s.

What I'm trying to get at is that, if a manga has only five or six Story Arcs throughout its entire run, then it doesn't strain Willing Suspension of Disbelief too much if the Conflict is personal every time. However, Marvel Comics has probably printed over a hundred Spider Man stories by this point, and that goes double for DC Comics and Batman; if every story those characters had involved a loved one in danger, they'd be Doom Magnets so big that even superhero fans would have trouble accepting the implausibility of it all.

edited 10th Apr '11 5:14:29 AM by RavenWilder


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