Heck, I'd be willing to support 5%.
But towns like the one I came from - ones that have probably never - not once - had to serve a client in Swedish in any of the services that the municipality or the state provides - are suffering when they're not allowed to hire local people who don't have work experience with the Swedish language when people applying from somewhere else do, and when they have to keep their staff trained in Swedish and their Swedish documents up-to-date when there's a very marginal chance that that effort would ever pay off.
If you're spending dozens of times more time and effort learning something than doing it, and you're not allowed to keep your job unless you maintain your skill level in this useless thing, you know there's something wrong.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.Those of you who live in negliably Swedish areas, have you ever been in places where there is a large Swedish minority? You'd noptice the change. I saw the reverse when I went to Tampere, and irrst thing I noticed that the street signs were in Finnish only. Seriously, you're already getting a lot of cut corners.
Eh, I'm personally thinking that Swedish should be taught earlier(seriously, its kinda hard to learn later when you aren't interested in it) =P And I'm the guy whose current grades in Swedish courses are 6, 7, 5. So yeah, I don't really like the language either, but I don't like dismissing the minorities completely.
I am not dismissing, I fail to see reason why I am punished for not learning language that is kept artificially so important. Why do swedish speaking minority has special priviledges compared to other? Why not teach Russia, which is more important in eastern Finland or saame, who are natives to northern Finland?(I do know that these numbers are much smaller than swedish speaking numbers)
I confess, I barely passed my swedish courses despite trying my best. Due to that, my chances of getting job are much lower now, despite being fluent (Wrote laudatur) in english and having minor skills in germany. Only because I didn't learn one language.
Mandatory swedish(or "Forced swedish", which ould be better translation of "pakkoruotsi") is counterproductive of it's goals, it does not teach young people to learn swedish, it create hostility towards "assholes who force us learn something we don't want", even if logic behind the tought is incorrect.
Also, Jehtro, I have visited Åland and swedish speaking areas. I have also served at tourist information. I had 3 swedish speaking clients (as in groups), 2 which iniated talk in english and anotehr who asked me to seve in english after I spoke swedish.
Also, why is Åland kept as swedish speaking territory? It ha only one official language: sweden, even tough it's part of Finland. Anyone else see anything wrong with that?
To anyone not from Finland, here is wiki link to mandatory swedish debate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Swedish
edited 3rd Jun '11 1:25:53 AM by Mandemo
I agree that making Swedish optional in schools would increase people's interest in learning the language. Sure, it'd mean that fewer Finnish-speaking Finns can say "Jag kan inte tala Svenska" when they come of age, but quality over quantity.
Another practise I think should be ended is the one where certain higher-level schools (universities and such) have Swedish-speaker quotas in their new students. That's just dumb, since it means that the schools may have to leave more talented Finnish-speakers out in favour of meeting the quota.
edit: Though I do not think that Swedish should have its status as an official language taken off. Switzerland has like four official languages, and I doubt their kids are forced to learn all of them.
edited 3rd Jun '11 1:59:54 AM by Kerrah
What is strange that most of the candidates in these parlamentary elections oppose forced swedish like most of the finnish people do. Strangely, all the other party chairmen that are represented in the parlament support forced swedish expect Timo Soini. Yet it still persists year after year, though it is a small price to pay for the support of the swedish peoples party in the government.
I don't mind street signs in Swedish, and I don't mind it if the Police and KELA and other offices serve their clients in Swedish. Why would I have a problem with that?
But if there are large parts of the country where you can't get employed in certain jobs because you don't have the "necessary" skill in a language that you will not need to use even a single time in your entire career, or your entire lifetime, then there's something wrong.
I'm studying at the University, and there are mandatory courses for academic expression in Finnish, English and Swedish. The question is: if I have never in my life been in a situation where knowing Swedish would be useful - outside of school, that is - why must I learn to write my academic papers in Swedish? I'm not even going to write them in Finnish! And what if I don't pass the courses on the first try and I end up not getting my degree out in time?
The artificially endorsed position that Swedish has in our country is a problem, and not just to us who never hear Swedish spoken outside of school IRL, but for people in all parts of Finland who'd rather use their limited time learning a useful language or another subject. I agree that Finns need to know at least three languages, but if one of them is one that you'll probably never use, then your languages haven't been chosen too well for you.
The two courses of French I took in high school and the two years of German I studied in upper comprehensive have been of more use to me in real-life situations than Swedish.
As I said, it'd make more sense to teach mandatory Finnish and English and let the student choose their third language from many options. Swedish should be one of them, but not the only one.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.Indeed, 90% of students pick english as their third language because they know it's pretty much a requirement to get a job. To learn anything else outside finnish-swedish-english, you need to be simuntaniusly learning four different languages, at best each one having totally different grammar rules (English vs. Finnish vs. Swedish vs. Russia). Now imagine you would like to learn something else too...
Practically everyone of my age that I know has been bitter about Swedish ever since they started learning it.
In high school, my entire Swedish class was filled with bitter young people.
My half-brother couldn't pass high school because he kept failing Swedish, so I know he's bitter.
It's not something you can just decide to learn. Being told to learn it affects how you view the whole language, and the culture around it.
The best way to avoid people getting bitter is to show a little humility.
I'm bitter of every major injustice or stupidity in our nation's education policy, because our education is 90% awesome. The biggest single problem is mandatory Swedish, which we could get rid of if there were some tweak in the language requirements of government offices and University degrees.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.This weekend there were two suspected terrorist attack attempts in Finland. Fortunately no-one was harmed in them. The internet message on the incidents was signed by Abu Suleiman al-Nasser, who also recently urged al-qaida to attack finnish troops stationed in Afghanistan (source: http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/06/police_tight_lipped_on_extremist_link_to_helsinki_explosives_offence_2642858.html)
.
The only thing about this farce that surprises me is that this kind of attack happened so soon here, as our muslim population is still very small.
EDIT: Now Helsinki's police forces deny any terrorist connections of the attempted attacks (source: http://yle.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/2011/06/poliisi_pasilan_pommi_ei_liity_terrorismiin_2644228.html)
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edited 6th Jun '11 4:13:23 AM by Paracletus
The Green Party has stepped out of the government negotiations, and the Centre Party has agreed to join them. The latter kinda saddens me, because I think the Centre Party have been such colossal dicks these past 8 or so years that they deserve to sit on the bench for at least one electoral season.
Also, a Finnish anarchist group has also claimed to be responsible for the "terrorism" attempts. With any luck, it was just a bunch of stoned unemployed 20-somethings and Finns won't be given any cause to start lynching Muslims on the streets.
edited 6th Jun '11 8:55:28 AM by Kerrah
Well, it appears we are going to have Six Pack for government... for now, let's see thigns tomorrow.
I find it funny how people always complain that parties do not keep their word after elections. Now that they keep, we got biggest mess since... civil war? Kekkonen?
Also, I get a feeling none of the parties really wants to get into government. Because general hostility towards EU and True Finns able to cause new government having a hard time, nobody wants to be in government which will most likely be remembered as "Giant Screw Up 2011". They want to keep their hands clean from this mess, like true Finns are doing.
In another opinion, it's sad I need to come here to speak finnish politics reasonably. Everywhere else is filled with True Finn supporters accusing Katainen of being Nazi Commie, except when he is whore for bankers. Or New World Order sellout.Or something
I stumbled upon this video just now and watched it. This is the speech that the President of Finland (1994-2000) Martti Ahtisaari gave at the ceremony where he received his Nobel Peace Prize in 2008. It's the best example I've yet seen of a Finnish accent and an excellent speech with waaaay more content that I was expecting. Pity that the video ends before the speech is finished, but it's enough to make you speechless.
At least, it worked for me.
BTW, I guess I'm much more Karelian than I ever thought - when he mentioned that he was from Viipuri, I got the chills and a sudden rush of sympathy for him. This, even though my family never lived in the area that was lost in WWII; instead, I'm from Lieksa, which is part of North Karelia and has about 100km of border with Russia. Some people who've never been to North Karelia have asked whether or not we consider ourselves Karelian the same way that "proper" Karelians do (or did before they became refugees). The answer is yes.
edited 10th Jun '11 1:34:20 PM by BestOf
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.Rugby is a real sport? I thought it was something they made up for films.
LOL
Anyway, looks like we are finaly getting a goverment, total of six different political parties in coalition, leaving pretty much only Perussuomalaiset out, who said that unless their EU policy is followed they are not participating.
Best Of, you are in Left Youths right? Can you explain WTF is going on Left Alliance, appearently some wise gusy said they would not join and rest of them said "WTF?"
Well, we only lost a few seats, and actually got about the same amount of votes as last time, there were just a lot of inactive voters voting this time around. But yeah, we lost.
But as for the guys jumping ship, fuck those guys. Have they no fucking loyalty to the party? If you disagree with cabinet policy, at least have the decency to start objecting once they come to vote. History, even recent, knows many cases where cabinet party MP's, and I think even ministers, have voted against the cabinet proposal. I think Yrttiaho and that other guy just want us to go into the opposition.
The Left Alliance isn't completely decided on whether or not we'll join the new government.
Without a platform that satisfies us and the people that we represent enough, we will not go into government. We will not join and then vote against everything.
Instead, we'll get as much as we can out of these negotiations, and if the result is satisfying - which, despite the post-election power dynamics, is still possible - we will join the government and act responsibly in it.
If the result of these negotiations is not good enough, we will be in the opposition, satisfied at least that our participation in the forming of the new government served to adjust the policy towards our goals, even if we couldn't get enough to actually join.
edited 21st Jan '14 6:43:32 AM by BestOf
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Let the Åland go, only trouble whole place. But I find proposla otherwise good. Still, Best Of idea to decrease 20% to 10% is better.