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Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
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#1: Apr 5th 2011 at 1:23:12 PM

Just curious who besides me has read it, and if you have, what you think.

Cerebus, The Sandman, and the various X titles were some of my staple reading material when I was in college. Today, I think of it as a deeply flawed masterpiece, with a lot of positives (the writing, humor, parodies, and several of the individual story arcs) which are weighed down by what I believe is a genuine schizoid break for Sim that led to what the latter half of the comic became. I think it's a must-read if you're a serious fan of the comic book, both as a medium and as an art form, but I can certainly understand its negative press.

edited 5th Apr '11 1:23:36 PM by Willbyr

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
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#3: Apr 6th 2011 at 5:55:57 AM

Damn, I missed that thread when I was going through the list...I'll have to give that a bump when I can respond to some of the points raised in more detail.

RalphCrown Short Hair from Next Door to Nowhere Since: Oct, 2010
Short Hair
#4: Apr 11th 2011 at 9:52:58 AM

In what other fictional universe do you get:

  • Oscar Wilde meeting Groucho Marx on a lonely mountain road
  • Elric of Melnibone teaming up with Captain America to sell war bonds
  • Man-Thing and Swamp Thing joining a porn artist in the space race
  • Todd McFarlane and the Three Stooges running a war
  • Two Beatles and a Rolling Stone in a bar beside the Great Wall
  • the Secretary-General of the UN playing hockey
  • the title character on the phone with the publisher's office
and that's just scratching the surface....

edited 18th Jan '12 8:25:36 AM by RalphCrown

Under World. It rocks!
punchy Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#5: Apr 11th 2011 at 10:25:48 AM

[up]And rampant misogyny. Don't forget that.

Kentok Earth-Pig Born from Upper Iest Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Earth-Pig Born
#6: Apr 11th 2011 at 12:29:15 PM

After some thinking, I've concluded that the misogyny is ultimately essential to the work..no matter how a lot of people don't like it(myself included).

You can get what you want and still not be very happy.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#7: Apr 11th 2011 at 3:50:49 PM

Honestly, the sudden and IMO extremely jarring transition into the Abrahamic mishmash religion that Sim's adopted sat worse with me than the misogynistic material. If he had stuck with his original plan to simply parody The Bible in Rick's Story, and not actually become a believer, I think the story ultimately would've had a much more satisfying ending, even if it had been as dark as it was.

Kentok Earth-Pig Born from Upper Iest Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Earth-Pig Born
#8: Apr 20th 2011 at 9:42:51 PM

I've reread Jaka's Story again..it never ceases to amaze me..

And the final 100 or so pages, dear God..

You can get what you want and still not be very happy.
DrFurball Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Apr 20th 2011 at 11:04:39 PM

I've only read the crossover in the original TMNT comic, which was a very fun read. I am somewhat interested in the series proper.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#10: Apr 21st 2011 at 6:03:57 AM

[up] I'd strongly recommend you read the Cerebus and High Society TP Bs for an introduction, and then decide for yourself if you want to continue further. If you do, you're pretty much committed to reading the rest of the series (at least through Minds), as from the start of Church and State on, it's one narrative broken into several key story arcs.

I've reread Jaka's Story again..it never ceases to amaze me..
Indeed; it's probably the strongest arc in the entire series, for sheer storytelling and character depth and interactions.

edited 21st Apr '11 6:07:47 AM by Willbyr

NewCope Since: Dec, 2009
#11: Apr 21st 2011 at 10:02:37 AM

[up] I was content to stop at Minds, myself. One can pretty much consider it the end of the series.

RalphCrown Short Hair from Next Door to Nowhere Since: Oct, 2010
Short Hair
#12: Apr 21st 2011 at 2:22:23 PM

One thing to consider is that there is a lot of backstory you will not get in the books themselves. Sim filled in some blanks via the letters pages and in interviews. If you like stories that don't dot all the ts for you, you may like Cerebus.

A simple rule of thumb—when you get to a phonebook that seems inaccessible, that doesn't make any narrative sense to you, it's time to stop. It won't get any better. If you don't like Guys, for instance, Rick's Story will be a waste of your money.

edited 3rd May '11 3:14:42 PM by RalphCrown

Under World. It rocks!
Kentok Earth-Pig Born from Upper Iest Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Earth-Pig Born
#13: Apr 21st 2011 at 4:10:09 PM

[up][up][up]

Miss Thatcher is one of the most terrifying and effective villains ever, it's kind of a shame how she went though Villain Decay in her later appearance.

"Oh..dear me..I almost forgot..Clarinda, 'striking a woman'..Please break Mr. Nash's left thumb."

Another interesting thing about Jaka's Story is that it can be read on it's own, and while people will say that's the same for High Society..it just doesn't stand as well as a standalone work.

When I first read HS (I read it first, before the first phonebook, like everyone told me.) I was pretty damn confused at a lot of places since the comic expected you to have knowledge of the 25 issues preceding it. Jaka's Story is different, the only thing hanging on in it is well..Cerebus himself..but he's a relatively minor character in it.

edited 21st Apr '11 4:11:31 PM by Kentok

You can get what you want and still not be very happy.
RalphCrown Short Hair from Next Door to Nowhere Since: Oct, 2010
Short Hair
#14: Jan 18th 2012 at 8:44:51 AM

Miss Thatcher is one of the most terrifying and effective villains ever

Just reread issue 134. What makes her so terrible is that she is convinced she's in the right. Anything she says or does is allowed, in fact obligatory, if it enforces her culture's morals. The suffering she inflicts is really punishment for your sins. Facts have to be made to conform to her worldview. She probably sleeps very well at night.

What makes her effective is that she's only one representative of a whole intolerant culture. If she disappeared for some reason, someone just like her would take her place. The culture decides right and wrong. Thatcher doesn't have to think or feel, she carries out judgment based on "family values." There is no mercy, no quarter, no compromise, because they're right and you're wrong.

And that's how a theocracy works. Only people like Thatcher could see that as a good thing.

Edit: Similar characters are Nurse Ratched in One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest and Kray-Tor in Warlock's Strange Tales days.

edited 18th Jan '12 2:02:19 PM by RalphCrown

Under World. It rocks!
NewCope Since: Dec, 2009
#15: Jan 19th 2012 at 5:51:18 AM

Miss Thatcher is one of the most terrifying and effective villains ever, it's kind of a shame how she went though Villain Decay in her later appearance.
Incidentally, the the Thatcher in Guys may not have been the same one as in Jaka's Story, rather in same fashion that there were two Oscar Wildes.

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