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BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#26: Apr 7th 2011 at 2:36:41 PM

I'd vote for the Greens (that is, if I were Canadian) based on what I've seen in this thread. There's nothing in that program that I disagree with, except maybe pot but it's not a big deal.

edited 7th Apr '11 2:37:20 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#27: Apr 7th 2011 at 4:23:06 PM

They got 7% of the popular vote last election and hopefully Elizabeth May can win a seat this time around. I think she's going for a more sane riding this time around. They don't have seats solely because of First Past the Post, because by proportion, they deserve around 25-35 seats in the House.

EDIT: I originally wrote 9%, it was actually 7%.

edited 19th Apr '11 9:11:55 PM by breadloaf

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#28: Apr 7th 2011 at 4:35:11 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/07/cv-election-ndp-crime.html

NDP anti-crime promises:

  • The NDP would also invest $75 million a year in federal support for a shelter system and women fleeing violence.
  • The NDP would boost federal support for the National Crime Prevention Centre to $100 million per year. (I'm not sure what the current level is, so this is missing some context)
  • The NDP would double and make permanent the police officer recruitment fund, the party said there would be annual increases over the following three years with a goal of adding 2,500 new police officers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/07/cv-election-harper-apology-1239.html

  • Harper apologises for screening at his public rallies.
  • RCMP admits they assisted the tory party in evicting people from their rallies. The national police force said it's not their job to help political party organizers limit access to political events. The RCMP said in a statement it is responsible only for the protection of the party leaders, and that officers have now been reminded of their duties.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/07/cv-election-liberal-apologizes.html

  • Liberal MP candidate John Reilly apologises over remarks about sexual assault. He indicated that he believed that some sexual assault crimes should not result in jail time. As an example, he pointed to a case where a man violated his girlfriend digitally and was sentenced to prison for three years. In clarification, he said that he thought there would be other lighter forms of punishment that would be better.
  • The Tories blasted him over the comments saying "No means no, and unfortunately this candidate has commented about a very serious offence ... and stated that he still — even though it's been condemned by Michael Igantieff — he still believes that sex offenders, some of them, ought not to go to prison".
  • Tories indicate that they would bring back the word "rape" to the Canadian Criminal Code. Critics believe this is wrong because it could lead to previous problems where non-physical or rape where physical injury is not significant was simply not prosecuted because the wording of the law was too specific.

edited 7th Apr '11 4:36:36 PM by breadloaf

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#29: Apr 8th 2011 at 8:45:54 AM

Tories have released their platform!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/08/cv-election-day14.html

  • They promise to eliminate the deficit early by "We will reduce the costs of government through finding efficiencies through a thorough strategic and operating expense review," (I have no idea what that means in terms of actual cuts, they didn't say)
  • tax credit for children's arts programs
  • volunteer firefighter tax credit
  • ecoENERGY Retrofit-Homes Program
  • Employment Insurance hiring credit for small businesses
  • promise to complete a deal over HST with Quebec by Sept. 15
  • a terror bill which will allow a judge to order an otherwise illegal search/seizure if one is suspected of terrorism
  • new megajails (PBO cost estimate: 10 billion, Tory cost estimate: 10 million)
  • The F-35 purchase (PBO cost estimate: 30-40 billion, Tory cost estimate: 10 billion)

I'm ignoring his promises that will be implemented 5 years later because that's just stupid and insulting.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#30: Apr 8th 2011 at 9:12:03 AM

I wasn't aware that terrorism was the same lol boogieman in Canada that it is in America. Might as well just call it the 'We're fighting terrorists so we can do whatever we want' law.

edited 8th Apr '11 9:12:33 AM by Karkadinn

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#31: Apr 8th 2011 at 12:33:43 PM

Actually, it's a bit surprising he proposes bringing in the terror legislation. The last terror legislation was sunset down a few years ago and most of its remaining provisions had already been struck down by a very angry supreme court. I'm not sure which votes he is attempting to gain there beyond the super far right who would vote tory even if he were bombing their houses.

Karkadinn Karkadinn from New Orleans, Louisiana Since: Jul, 2009
Karkadinn
#32: Apr 8th 2011 at 12:38:08 PM

That's a genuine relief to hear, then.

Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
AwayLaughing Away from North of Broadway (Seven Years' War) Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
Away
#33: Apr 8th 2011 at 1:38:34 PM

Terrorism isn't an LOL boogieman in Canada, I've no clue why he'd put that in. It just makes me want to vote for him even less.

As it stands I absolutely won't be voting NDP (the provincial ND Ps plan on cutting 20% from education which includes ESL tutors, special education for children with learning delays, are deaf or are blind and effects all the school related music and sports groups and all the provincial museums) or Conservative (because Harper makes me want to hurt things). That leaves the Greens and The Liberals and I sort of worry that a vote for the Greens will just become a vote for the Conservatives. Especially living in a riding none of the parties care one wit about getting the support of.

Frankly I'm only voting because I can't stand the idea of Harper getting a majority, at least if I vote and he gets it (remind me to apply for out of country uni if he does) I'll be absolved of guilt and only have my hopes and faith in the Canadian people crushed. If only we had some non-career politicians, people who actually cared about this country. Wouldn't that be novel.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#34: Apr 8th 2011 at 2:24:50 PM

We will reduce the costs of government through finding efficiencies through a thorough strategic and operating expense review

This sounds exactly like he's just making promises to sound good rather than actually plan anything. Much like "you won't regret this".

tax credit for children's arts programs
Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

volunteer firefighter tax credit ecoENERGY Retrofit-Homes Program
Meh, sounds okay, but I'm sure that the true purpose is sinister.

Fight smart, not fair.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#35: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:04:23 PM

@Away Laughing

Vote green! I love their platform. Every vote gets them $2. As long as Harper doesn't get a majority he can't do away with the publicly-funded election system, which would seriously destroy the Greens.

@deboss

The sinister plan is to get into power based on people easily fooled and then cut public funding of elections so that the Tories can reinstate corporate donations. Then the RCMP again "forgets" their actual duties and acts as his strong arm men in public occassions. Soon enough those megajails he's building will be filled with the fools opposing his rule and anyone else that can't be jailed will just get bombed by F-35s.

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#36: Apr 8th 2011 at 3:37:07 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/08/cv-election-ndp-esquimalt.html

NDP promises to focus spending on the navy instead of the airforce. He didn't specifically say what he would purchase instead of the F-35s.

He also promises to refocus the defence forces to the following priorities:

  • defending Canada and protecting Canadians;
  • assisting people when disasters strike in Canada and abroad;
  • providing support for peacekeeping and peacebuilding

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#37: Apr 8th 2011 at 6:27:51 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/08/cv2011-smith-bloc-harper-response.html

Duceppe is angry over comments by Smith, a tory MP candidate, after he approved of patronage by the conservative party. The bloc leader called it a "completely stupid" comment.

Smith said "But it's normal that you're going to focus on the areas with the people that do support you. That is part of political life."

Harper defended Smith, saying "But the reality is this, all these projects were delivered by Conservative members of Parliament even in their own ridings because the other parties voted against those programs... I think all ridings would be better served to have a Conservative MP in office working with us to best identify the projects in their ridings."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/08/cv-election-liberal-reilly.html

Transcript of Interview: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-politics-blog/2011/04/what-john-reilly-said.html

Conservatives are continuing to hammer John Reilly over his comments about not requiring jail time in all sexual assault cases. However Tom Flanagan, a former senior adviser to Stephen Harper, called the controversy over Reilly’s remarks an example of “gotcha politics.”

"This is a very sad moment for Canadian politics, and I'm embarrassed that my own party, the Conservatives, and the Liberals are equally involved in condemning John Reilly," he said Thursday on CBC’s Power & Politics with Evan Solomon.

Here's the star statement:

JR: There are. But I believe that the percentage of "bad dudes"that are in there is a lot lower than the, I mean, this is one of my problems with the criminal justice system the way it is, is that I say we put too much emphasis on the offence and not enough emphasis on the offender. If you're looking at what the Conservative government wants to do is say if this is the offence, you go to jail. And that's going to put people in jail that don't need to be there.

Host: But what kind of offences though?

JR: Sexual assault.

Host: You shouldn't go to jail for a sex assault?

JR: Well, you know, there are sexual assaults and there are sexual assaults.

Host: Sure?

JR: And I had another young man, not a young offender, but a 19, 20 year old. He's at a party, there's a lot of sexual innuendo, one of these women is being very aggressive with her boyfriend and they're drinking a lot, the boyfriend passes out, she goes, gets into bed naked, he goes up, he's thinking he's going to be able to, that she'll probably agree to have sex with him, he fondles her privates, and she wakes up and tells him to go away, and he goes away. They report it, he's charged with sexual offence, he has digitally penetrated her, the Crown prosecutor says this is a digital penetration of a woman's vagina, he should go to jail for three years, that's the starting point for this sexual offence.

And I'm looking at this 20 year old, socially inept young man, and his offence is a sexual assault and it's one that they consider a major sexual assault because it involves digital penetration. I don't think in those circumstances that that what happened there should put that young man in a penitentiary for three years.

Host: Unless it's your daughter, and then maybe you've got a whole another perspective! You haven't mentioned the word "victim" once yet!

JR: You know, I am concerned about victims, but what I'm concerned about is our society as a whole. Often, these minimum sentences that I'm stuck with, if I have an assault occasioning bodily harm, that'll qualify now as a crime of violence. Again, a couple of guys have too much to drink in a bar and get into a fight, maybe somebody gets hit with a glass. I had a woman in front of me who was charged with assault occasioning bodily harm. She was drunk, guy offended her, she went to throw the beer in her glass in his face and she hit his face with the glass and it broke and there was huge damage done to his face. Now, they're saying she's got to go to jail, this is an aggravated assault because it has caused serious bodily injury.

edited 8th Apr '11 6:28:28 PM by breadloaf

AwayLaughing Away from North of Broadway (Seven Years' War) Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
Away
#38: Apr 10th 2011 at 3:33:22 PM

It is "gotcha" politics, he said something admittedly stupid but once he clarified it it's something even I, who is a proud feminist, rolled my eyes at. All in all listening to CBC all day every day has just put me in a bad mood regarding this election.

Harper reminds me so much of a five year old I once babysat who, once he'd latched onto a particularly odd insult for you wouldn't drop it no matter how ineffectual it is. Very much leaning Green now, this is getting disgusting to follow really.

GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows! Since: Oct, 2010
The Shadows Devour You.
#39: Apr 10th 2011 at 3:53:42 PM

Let me ask; why is saying things will be implemented 5 years on insulting? It sounds like using foresight.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#40: Apr 10th 2011 at 5:16:09 PM

^ Promises for something to occur in five years is insulting. A five year plan is not. There's a large difference between the two and perhaps I wasn't clear on that, but the Tories have not specified what they'd actually do except "be awesome conservatives".

They're running the largest deficit in the history of Canada, with inflation included, meaning they're beating Mulroney and even the Great Depression. They've the largest government in the history of Canada. They've broken the record on Senate appointments, stacking our upper house legislature with his cronies after promising to make it more democratic. He's committed lying and document forgery (Hiding information on the F-35 purchase and forging a document then lying about it with relation to cutting funding to some charity) in the House of Commons which led to the historic first in Canada of being held in Contempt of Parliament which is what led to this election. I'm already ignoring the several dozen scandals and possible crimes that should require jail time.

Tax and spend liberals my ass. My tax went down under the liberals and with the Greens I'd save around 1500 in income taxes. With the Tory plan to lower corporate taxes who is going to pick up the slack? My taxes, with respect to CPP and EI, have already gone up several hundred dollars last year to cover the giant hole that was their awesome recession spending package.

They lost our UN Security Council seat to f-ing Portugal, even when by custom, Europe wasn't allowed another seat. Why? Because he wanted to rush back to Canada to kill gun control laws. He failed in that regard too and everybody knew he was going to fail. This isn't the USA where gun rights are enshrined in the constitution and I have no idea why he thinks that. He blew Canada's image on the international stage and frustrated our allies over f-ing gun rights.

—-

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/04/10/cv-election-ndp-layton-platform.html

NDP release plan, though I question his odd timing because viewership is low right now.

  • Bump corporate tax rate up to 19.5% (currently at 16.5%)
  • Crack down on offshore tax havens (estimated gain of 3 billion per year by 2014-2015 but I didn't see how he was supposed to crack down on them)
  • A "within 100 days" promise of:
    • Hiring more doctors and nurses.
    • Working with the provinces to strengthen the pension systems, with the eventual goal of doubling benefits.
    • Giving small businesses a tax cut and introducing targeted job-creation tax credits.
    • Capping credit card fees at prime plus 5 per cent, while taking federal sales tax off home heating.
    • Working to "fix" Ottawa to stop scandals and encourage co-operation between parties.
  • $2.2-billion compensation package for Quebec for implementing the HST
  • NDP government would not require British Columbia to repay $1.6 billion in HST transfers even if voters in that province reject the harmonized sales tax in an upcoming referendum
  • Navy ships instead of fighterjet purchase (did not see exact numbers)
  • Crime prevention and community safety program that would cost roughly $255 million.
  • More affordable housing, reduce poverty and improve access to child care and post-secondary education. (Vague, didn't see numbers or the plan)
  • Expand care for seniors, including increasing funding for forgivable loans to help keep seniors in their homes, helping families retrofit their homes to create secondary suites for senior family members and addressing the shortage of long-term care beds. (Didn't see the numbers)
  • Carbon cap and trade system
  • Abolish the Senate and restrict the prime minister’s power to prorogue Parliament

The Tories blasted the NDP platform as "hurting families", saying the NDP were poised to raise taxes and form a coalition. (I don't know why a coalition is even a bad thing but whatever.)

—-

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/10/cv-election-harper-spending.html

  • Harper defends himself against the media as they rail him on details on his intended cuts. Harper refuses to give any details and instead suggests that "Anybody who says you can't find money in Ottawa without cutting vital services to people simply is living in a fantasy world. That's not how government works. There are inefficiencies and it is your job to constantly find them. That's what we have been doing and that's what we'll continue to do." (Yes, mr. Largest deficit in Canadian history even with inflation counted)
  • Harper defends F-35 purchase, saying that the US estimate on cost is wrong because we'll somehow buy the plane below cost since "the U.S. will pay extra development costs and Canada will take delivery of the planes at a fixed price."
  • Harper suggests anybody who doesn't wish to purchase the F-35s live in a fantasy land and says no other planes exist to purchase

—-

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/10/cv-election-debats-duceppe.html

  • In rather lighter news, the French debate will be moved since it conflicts with NHL playoffs.

ninjaclown Since: May, 2009
#41: Apr 10th 2011 at 5:39:42 PM

You don't have to keep posting CBC news here, you know.

edited 10th Apr '11 5:44:41 PM by ninjaclown

AwayLaughing Away from North of Broadway (Seven Years' War) Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
Away
#42: Apr 10th 2011 at 5:43:44 PM

I'd laugh at that last point but it's actually very sensible, my French relatives are not going to watch the debate and risk missing the hockey games.

To Chainsaw, it is the vague promises instead of a plan but it's also this coalition business. Every time it comes up I'm tempted to point out to everyone nearby that the Progressive Conservative party's roots are as a party formed through a coalition. The mind boggles.

At any rate, the NDP platform doesn't look too bad all things considered by the provincial government would ruin us under the ND Ps and Layton doesn't inspire me in the least.

GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows! Since: Oct, 2010
The Shadows Devour You.
#43: Apr 10th 2011 at 5:46:05 PM

Canada doesn't sound like its doing well for politicians right now. sad

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
AwayLaughing Away from North of Broadway (Seven Years' War) Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
Away
#44: Apr 10th 2011 at 5:53:54 PM

No. We're not. We suffer from career politicians, something I've noticed the US suffers under as well a does (from what I can tell) the UK, France and many, many other countries. They don't actually care about the nation, they care about being in charge and pushing their agenda no matter how it actually affects the people living there.

For heaven's sake Harper bought torpedoes that do not work with our submarines, and the submarines don't work either. Granted, the subs were Chrétien's fault, but still. Harper is entirely too military focused, if he actually cared he'd instead either finally fix the broken subs or, alternatively, buy a new one. We only use them for research anyway, and we haven't fired a torpedo or even needed to since WW 2. AND he didn't want to tell us, we found out from the company he hired to make them.

edited 11th Apr '11 3:50:35 AM by AwayLaughing

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#45: Apr 10th 2011 at 11:26:49 PM

You don't have to keep posting CBC news here, you know.

For us non-Canadians who are interested enough to read the thread but don't want to start reading Canadian news for this alone, it's nice to have summaries of CBC articles.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Folksoul Come play with us. from British Columbia Since: Apr, 2011
Come play with us.
#47: Apr 11th 2011 at 5:14:48 AM

Anyone care to post the Liberal's platform? NDP and Conservative coverage is all well and good, but I really don't know what the "middle ground" party is doing. All I hear are ads saying that Ignatief is a smarmy jerk. As long as he's competent I don't care about his personal life.

edited 11th Apr '11 5:15:13 AM by Folksoul

AwayLaughing Away from North of Broadway (Seven Years' War) Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
Away
#48: Apr 11th 2011 at 6:26:37 AM

Liberal platform here: http://www.liberal.ca/platform/

I'd summarize but I'm on my out the door as I type.

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#49: Apr 11th 2011 at 9:08:08 AM

Whoops, I thought I posted the Liberal platform already but I guess I didn't. They were the first to release their platform, calling it a "Family-Oriented" platform.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/03/cv-election-campaign-day-8.html

  • The Learning Passport plan, which would invest $1,000 over four years in the Registered Education Savings Plans of high school students, and $1,500 for low-income students. It would cost close to $1 billion.
  • The Early Childhood Learning and Care Fund, estimated to cost $1.2 billion over two years, for the provinces to create new child care spaces and train staff.
  • The Family Care plan involves a tax benefit for those caring for elderly parents or sick relatives worth up to $1,350 and an Employment Insurance benefit allowing caregivers to take up to six months off work
  • Enhancing the Canada Pension Plan and investing $700 million to boost the Guaranteed Income Supplement for low-income seniors
  • The Green Renovation Tax Credit, a permanent tax credit for homeowners of up to $13,500, would cost $400 million. (PBO says average homeowner can expense usually upwards to 1300 and nowhere close to the actual limit of 13 500, so interestingly this will cost less than 400 million but that also means you get less money out of it)

  • $7 billion in funds would be freed up by the second year and $3 billion of that would be set aside in a "Prudence Fund."
  • The Liberals say they would pay for the spending by raising corporate tax rates back up to the 2010 level of 18 per cent
  • canceling the Public Private Partnership Infrastructure Fund, brought in by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, saving more than $500 million.
  • Cancel corporate tax breaks for oil sands development, and limit tax breaks on stock options. (the party would cap the amount that can be claimed at $50,000 annually, saving an estimated $600 million over two years.)

  • $180 million over four years to create a new Canada Service Corps to encourage volunteerism, which will involve forgiving $1,500 in student loans for young Canadians who volunteer.
  • The Liberals would bring back the Court Challenges Program cancelled by the Conservatives.
  • The Liberal government would direct Elections Canada to develop online voting as an option for Canadians. (Not sure how to make this secure, the secret ballot would be less secure with online voting so this is difficult to make I think)
  • A "people’s question period," where the prime minister and cabinet would respond directly to the public’s questions in a weekly online session. (Hopefully better than it sounds)
  • Setting a goal of 100 per cent high-speed internet in rural areas.
  • $550 million for affordable housing
  • $300,000 for a Community Heroes Fund for the families of fallen officers
  • bringing back the long-form census (YAY!)

  • The F-35 is not included in this platform, as they indicate the planned purchase is awhile from now, there's time to deal with it specifically later (so it wouldn't be in the budget for the next few years anyway)


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/11/cv-election-ag-report.html

Tories found to have been laundering possibly 50 million dollars in spending out of the G8/G20 summit spending. Auditor General Sheila Fraser does not comment on these matters during elections. However, a draft report was seen by The Canadian Press and it indicates that around 50 million dollars was spent in MP Tony Clement's riding on projects that had little or nothing to do with the summit (or at least, no review was conducted whatsoever). This could amount to illegal use of taxpayer money. The actual report will be out after the election finishes.

breadloaf Since: Oct, 2010
#50: Apr 11th 2011 at 2:56:45 PM

Okay it looks like the scandal over the 1.2 billion dollars spent on the G8/G20 summit is rapidly spreading into a firestorm. Tories are under fire from all parties and everyone has urged the Auditor General to release her final report on the matter. At the heart of the controversy is 50 million dollars that may have been laundered to Tory supporting individuals/organisations.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/11/cv-election-ag-report-reaction-1244.html

  • Auditor General said the final report cannot be released until after the election, as per the rules, and so urges some caution about the draft release that was leaked to the Canadian Press
  • Around 50 million dollars was spent in the Huntsville riding, of Tony Clement, on projects that had little or nothing to do with the summit which could amount to an illegal process of giving money to Tory supporters

Another related note on the subject

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadavotes2011/story/2011/04/11/cv-election-weston-ag-fraser.html

  • Conservatives attempted to deflect accusations of over-spending on the summit publishing their own report on the issue but they put in a false quote that pretended to show the Auditor General praised them for prudent spending but in reality, the quote was from her analysis of Liberal spending on security post 9/11
  • In response, the Auditor General wrote an extremely scathing letter to the conservatives for lying and demanded they immediately change the report because she in no way stated that the spending was prudent

edited 11th Apr '11 3:13:21 PM by breadloaf


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