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ForoneAndWon from ambigous origins Since: Nov, 2010
#126: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:41:11 PM

Ninja'd by Tomu

edited 3rd Apr '11 6:41:42 PM by ForoneAndWon

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#127: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:41:39 PM

To be fair, we're geeking out over media rather than claiming to be a beacon of human achievement over here.

Stormtroper from Little Venice Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: I-It's not like I like you, or anything!
#128: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:41:58 PM

That would include TV Tropes I'm sure.

Maybe I should've included a Pothole to Sarcasm Mode or Hypocritical Humor?

edited 3rd Apr '11 6:42:49 PM by Stormtroper

And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#129: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:42:15 PM

Ahhh, but art reflects reality. By studying art, we are studying reality. We are more aware of the true nature of humanity than anyone else.

Pykrete NOT THE BEES from Viridian Forest Since: Sep, 2009
NOT THE BEES
#130: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:43:39 PM

And the true nature of humanity is lulz.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#132: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:59:08 PM

If they have the power to bring me back in reasonably good conditions and don't, that's murder.

Is it just me, or does this sound vaguely like a parallel to abortion?

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
Desertopa Not Actually Indie Since: Jan, 2001
Not Actually Indie
#133: Apr 3rd 2011 at 6:59:17 PM

Still, my misconception may come from the general thought that people who asphyxiate suffer brain damage. Is this damage simply organic, rather than informational, to the extent that a sort of "Cybernetic Brain" would be able to recover it? Or are cells deteriorated such that personality and memories are lost once the brain stops receiving oxygen?

According to the wiki article, information death is believed to occur a few hours after clinical death at room temperature, but can occur more rapidly if there's no blood flow to the brain during life support, leading to pre-mortem decomposition, or if the person suffers from a degenerative brain disease prior to death. This isn't my field though, and afraid I don't really know much more than that. People have been revived well after clinical death without brain damage, but people sometimes suffer permanent brain damage after a few minutes without oxygen, and I don't know what the underlying mechanisms are that cause this.

...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#134: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:00:37 PM

If they have the power and obligation to bring one back and don't it's tantamount to murder I guess? But I don't think we should be establishing obligation to resurrection anytime soon. Or, like, ever.

So, what, we have Cyronic devices in ER rooms as part of health care?

edited 3rd Apr '11 7:01:48 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Desertopa Not Actually Indie Since: Jan, 2001
Not Actually Indie
#135: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:12:06 PM

Ideally if you're signed up up for cryonics and are put in critical condition for whatever reason, they'll put some people on standby so they can start applying preliminary measures as soon as clinical death occurs. Under less ideal circumstances, well... you have a few hours, tops, they'll do what they can.

...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
CDRW Since: May, 2016
#136: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:12:13 PM

Actually, in my view that is tantamount to, well, probably not murder, but negligent homicide perhaps. The whole emergency medical care system is basically built around that idea. Arguing that anyone actually HAS that obligation when it comes to cryogenics is another story though.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#137: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:14:38 PM

It took like, two hours from the time of my dad's announced death just to get a Hospice nurse out here. I mean, if someone finds you, you're taken to the ER, and then lifesaving mechanisms in the ER aren't functional, sure. But I'm really skeptical that "a few hours" is really a long time.

Actually, that's a really good question. Of people that die, what percentage of them are pronounced dead within a few hours of their collapse? What percentage of people die in Hospital Emergency rooms, basically? Hmmm...

BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#138: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:21:58 PM

However, the Second Coming, the End of The World, and Judgement require physics-bending miracles to happen.

Merely being inside physics does not make a theory significantly more probable than one outside it, if we have no evidence for either.

I could offer the theory that Muammar Qaddafi is going to take over the world by next week, but it doesn't make it that much more probable than my other theory that Qaddafi will ascend bodily into heaven. Certainly it is more probable, but saying only that is like claiming that an atom is large because it's larger than a proton.

You should stop comparing the Singularity to the Rapture, they don't have much in common. For one thing, the Singularity doesn't promise hope or justice or love. Only technological progress, which is a double-edged sword.

Since we're talking about the chances of them happening, this is irrelevant.

Also, there's no reason the Rapture doesn't happen before we get there, or afterwards for that matter. This and that are just completely different things.

What, you mean before or after the Singularity? There is no such thing as a technological Singularity, because the idea of a Singularity treats "the future" as a point in time, rather than as a span that will probably be at least as long as if not longer than "the past".

Yes, maybe we invent intelligent AI in the future. Or maybe we invent giant mosquitobots. We can say with a reasonable degree of certainty we'll invent things, and that they will improve our lives in all the ways technology has so far done in the past, but we can't say what we'll invent past a span of about 10 years max.

Information death doesn't occur until some time after clinical death, according to our current medical understanding. If you're unlucky and it's a long time before you're found, cryonics isn't going to do you any good, but a lot of people suffer information death who wouldn't necessarily have to if they were signed up for cryonics.

Your last statement does not follow from your first one.

Because we've never resurrected anyone, we don't know if freezing people actually helps us do that, especially freezing people in a way that damages their cells, and especially especially in the period between legal and information death, where a future ressurector, even if they overcame the problem of the ice, would only have a minute or so to cure whatever killed you in the first place.

Also, about something you said earlier in your post: Just because an idea wasn't selected randomly doesn't make it probable either. As I've already said, ice causes known cellular damage that would pretty certainly make it impossible to recover your brain. Cryonics seems so far to be based mainly on the illusion that just because your body doesn't rot, it must be fine. Maybe it'll get better eventually, but until someone at least resurrects a rat or something I'm not buying it.

Also, Ardiente asked me to let people know that he's been banned, to head off anyone wondering where he's gone.

Aww, that's too bad. I can kinda guess what it was for though.

edited 3rd Apr '11 7:22:23 PM by BlackHumor

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#139: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:24:23 PM

Oh great, someone else has been banned. What happened there? Someone PM me I guess ,don't wanna get off-topic.

edited 3rd Apr '11 7:25:20 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#140: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:26:28 PM

He just sent me a PM; how could he be banned?

Or was he banned from Less Wrong?

@On the topic of cryonics: cryonics offer a possibility - a glimmer of hope - for eluding death. That alone is nice.

Does this go against his beliefs? No, I do not believe such. You can justify choosing an ideal if it is even a little bit more likely than something else.

edited 3rd Apr '11 7:28:43 PM by TheMightyAnonym

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#141: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:27:43 PM

No, it was probably from here, or Desertopa wouldn't bother telling us.

I guess you can send PM's after you're banned, then?

Desertopa Not Actually Indie Since: Jan, 2001
Not Actually Indie
#142: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:29:33 PM

So it seems.

He said it was because of a holler he sent regarding Rott, but I didn't ask for specifics.

...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#143: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:31:20 PM

I hope it was only a temp ban. He wasn't very out of line, so far as I'm concerned.

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
EnglishIvy Since: Aug, 2011
#144: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:31:56 PM

You can be banned for sending a holler?

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#145: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:32:01 PM

As always, I have no idea WTF is going on. Can someone PM me to fill me in on the specs? I'd say create a channel about it, but I don't think that's kosher.

Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#146: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:32:06 PM

He had already been banned as Raw Power, but, on-topic conversations blablabla

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
Jordan Azor Ahai from Westeros Since: Jan, 2001
Azor Ahai
#147: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:35:10 PM

I'd also like to be P Med if no one minds. Seems a weird situation, and it's nice to receive P Ms in any case.

On topic, I guess it would be nice to get in layman's terms a general summary of E.Y.'s philosophy.

Hodor
BlackHumor Since: Jan, 2001
#148: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:41:22 PM

I've gotten some details from him via PM; if anybody wants I can PM them too.

I'd post to this topic, but it'd probably be thumped by the mods anyways. Derailing and whatnot.

Desertopa Not Actually Indie Since: Jan, 2001
Not Actually Indie
#149: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:44:57 PM

On topic, I guess it would be nice to get in layman's terms a general summary of E.Y.'s philosophy.

This post might be what you're looking for.

...eventually, we will reach a maximum entropy state where nobody has their own socks or underwear, or knows who to ask to get them back.
TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#150: Apr 3rd 2011 at 7:52:48 PM

Back on topic, I just dug this out, after remembering it.

[up][up]I'd like to know what is going on, myself.

edited 3rd Apr '11 7:53:21 PM by TheMightyAnonym

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD

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