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PDown It's easy, mmkay? Since: Jan, 2012
It's easy, mmkay?
#76: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:34:11 PM

Frankly, I think that all of the arguments against Less Wrong are ridiculous. Yes, I'm a Christian, but I'm willing to overlook their fervent evangelical atheism because of their fascinating and convincing scientific ideals.

At first I didn't realize I needed all this stuff...
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
Ardiente I won't kill you. Since: Jan, 2011
I won't kill you.
#78: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:35:26 PM

Who?

[up][up]*misty eyes* You are a beautiful person, and have just reminded me of why we shouldn't bash people indiscriminately. To be so forigiving as to enjoy Less Wrong without feeling hurt or offended or challenged... as a former religious person, I must say this is Bad Ass.

edited 3rd Apr '11 4:37:32 PM by Ardiente

"Sweets are good. Sweets are justice."
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#79: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:36:27 PM

You. You said you don't care about acting like an ass, and then you say Gacek is acting like an ass and is thus ignorable.

fascinating and convincing scientific ideals

Such as?

edited 3rd Apr '11 4:37:09 PM by Tzetze

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
Ardiente I won't kill you. Since: Jan, 2011
I won't kill you.
#80: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:39:01 PM


Thumped for switching the discussion from the topic to a person.

"Sweets are good. Sweets are justice."
Rottweiler Dog and Pony Show from Portland, Oregon Since: Dec, 2009
Dog and Pony Show
#81: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:39:48 PM

Oh, and in general at the thread. Sometimes we fail to walk our talk. We act against our better judgement. It's called Akrasia.

Akrasia nothing. Y'all are wrong in your epistemology. You don't get to be materialist atheists because of empiricism, then abandon empiricism when you need a different theory of what is knowable to conclude that the Singularity is true.

edited 3rd Apr '11 4:41:47 PM by Rottweiler

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#82: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:41:41 PM

Sure we do-in the same way you can claim there's meaningful truths about God, but then when someone calls you on how God is undefinable and unknowable you suggest that it's just a limit of human thinking. It's all the same game.

Ardiente I won't kill you. Since: Jan, 2011
I won't kill you.
#83: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:41:58 PM


Thumped for switching the discussion from the topic to a person.

"Sweets are good. Sweets are justice."
Jordan Azor Ahai from Westeros Since: Jan, 2001
Azor Ahai
#84: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:43:18 PM

Ardiente, I can't tell what you found so offensive in Gacek's posts. Unless I missed a detail, it didn't seem like he was making personal attacks.

Hodor
Ardiente I won't kill you. Since: Jan, 2011
I won't kill you.
#85: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:49:05 PM

I qualify as a nerd as well as a geek, though I'm shooting for Genlteman And A Scholar status. As such, I feel insulted and upset that he use "nerd" as an insult, the same way the child of a garbage man who'd think there was nothing wrong with their father's job would feel upset if someone else used that as an insult. For a fictional example, Draco Malfoy could turn anything, even your name, into a venomous insult.

But what really gets to me is the sheer unfairness of conflating all nerds with singularitarians (whatever that's supposed to mean), and all singularitarians with lesswronguians.

edited 3rd Apr '11 6:01:03 PM by Madrugada

"Sweets are good. Sweets are justice."
Rottweiler Dog and Pony Show from Portland, Oregon Since: Dec, 2009
Dog and Pony Show
#86: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:49:24 PM

@Tomu: First, that was St. Gregory of Nyssa, not me.

Second, you're wrong in saying "God is unknowable and undefinable" in his theory: God is undefinable in words, which are labels for things humans perceive in space-time through sensory input (God exists beyond spacetime). God is knowable, but only on the testimony of those who empirically experienced his activity in space-time, like the Incarnation.

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#87: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:54:40 PM

You too, are being unwarrantedly hostile

How so?

singularitarians (whatever that's supposed to mean)

Someone who advocates/etc. The Singularity.

edited 3rd Apr '11 4:55:01 PM by Tzetze

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#88: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:54:58 PM

Unknowable and undefinable in terms that are meaningful to the topic of epistemology. That's why it's the same goddamned thing.

Rottweiler Dog and Pony Show from Portland, Oregon Since: Dec, 2009
Dog and Pony Show
#89: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:57:05 PM

"The Singularity is True"??? What sort of nonsense is this? I can't make head or tails of this.

You're not welcome at Less Wrong unless you affirm belief in the Singularity/ transhumanism/cryonics belief bundle. Yudkowsky even says "I'm going to come out and say it: If you don't sign up your kids for cryonics then you are a lousy parent." 1

By what theory of knowledge (epistemology) do y'all know these beliefs about future events are true, rather than simply the milleniarian beliefs of a dubious new religious movement?

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#90: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:58:14 PM

Well, cryonics and the singularity aren't the same thing.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#91: Apr 3rd 2011 at 4:58:43 PM

Actually, I don't even know what you're talking about here, but my guess would be that it's just a simple costs/benefits analysis.

At least on the topic of cryonics, I guess I probably disagree with the guy. My family tends to only live until 63 anyway. It's when my dad went, and it's when my great grandfather went. Granddad lasted till 73 though. He was a cheater.

edited 3rd Apr '11 5:00:08 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Ardiente I won't kill you. Since: Jan, 2011
I won't kill you.
#92: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:00:00 PM

Signing up me and my kids for cryogenics might be a sensible idea, even as a religious person, once you get past the initial squick. It's just that it's illegal in France, and, I think, in Spain too.

"Sweets are good. Sweets are justice."
mailedbypostman Since: May, 2010
TheMightyAnonym PARTY HARD!!!! from Pony Chan Since: Jan, 2010
PARTY HARD!!!!
#94: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:00:51 PM

I think this is the first time I've read something that actually made me mad on tvTropes. Plenty of things I didn't agree with, but nothing that actually made me mad. Until now.

It doesn't bother me, really. I actually find it hilarious. When I was on ponibooru, I posted a link to Tv Tropes. The result? Someone posted "Tv Tropes? Kill yourself you useless nerd". I nearly fell over laughing.

Frankly, I think that all of the arguments against Less Wrong are ridiculous. Yes, I'm a Christian, but I'm willing to overlook their fervent evangelical atheism because of their fascinating and convincing scientific ideals.

~highfives~

I thought I was the only one! :,)

Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
Ardiente I won't kill you. Since: Jan, 2011
I won't kill you.
#95: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:06:05 PM


Thumped for switching the discussion from the topic to a person.

"Sweets are good. Sweets are justice."
Rottweiler Dog and Pony Show from Portland, Oregon Since: Dec, 2009
Dog and Pony Show
#96: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:06:13 PM

Ardi, that's not what he says. Here's what he actually does say:

I've been unsure about saying it, but after attending this event, and talking to the perfectly ordinary parents who signed their kids up for cryonics like the goddamn sane people do, I'm going to come out and say it: If you don't sign up your kids for cryonics then you are a lousy parent.

If you aren't choosing between textbooks and food, then you can afford to sign up your kids for cryonics. I don't know if it's more important than a home without lead paint, or omega-3 fish oil supplements while their brains are maturing, but it's certainly more important than you going to the movies or eating at nice restaurants. That's part of the bargain you signed up for when you became a parent. If you can afford kids at all, you can afford to sign up your kids for cryonics, and if you don't, you are a lousy parent. I'm just back from an event where the normal parents signed their normal kids up for cryonics, and that is the way things are supposed to be and should be, and whatever excuses you're using or thinking of right now, I don't believe in them any more, you're just a lousy parent.

Remember, he has no empirical evidence that freezing dead people will lead to future A.I.s restoring them to immortal bodies, any more than I have empirical evidence that God will in the future restore us to immortal bodies. The difference is that I admit it, while Yudkowsky wants to believe that all his beliefs are the sole logical conclusions of empiricist materialism.

“Love is the eternal law whereby the universe was created and is ruled.” — St. Bernard
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#97: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:09:39 PM

I strongly suspect the only way cryogenics would work is if your body is really temporally frozen at a time prior to death. Computers can have all the data they want but unless they have an uncorrupted copy of your mind, there's not much to work from.

Oh my god, I'm remembering the Xenosaga cell phone game now. Badass.

Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#98: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:12:11 PM

Cryonics. Cryogenics is producing low temperatures.

Cellphone game? Was that Pied Piper?

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#99: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:12:33 PM

Yep. Jan or whatever his name is went into the brain of a dead guy. Or mind, rather, seeing as how Xenosaga works off of the AWMFG I'M SPOILING A VIDEO GAME RIGHT NOW.

edited 3rd Apr '11 5:13:04 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#100: Apr 3rd 2011 at 5:12:48 PM

I think Yudkowsky goes too far with the cryonics thing, but I can see where he's coming from. I also see what Rott is getting at (there's an ironic parallel between Yudkowski's argument for cryonics and Pascal's Wager).

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

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