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TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#9926: Nov 5th 2020 at 7:30:18 AM

[up][up][up] That trailer gave me more laughs than I thought it would. [lol]

EDIT: Pagetopper. I was referring to the trailer for the LEGO Star Wars Holiday Special.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Nov 5th 2020 at 7:31:03 AM

jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#9927: Nov 5th 2020 at 8:35:03 AM

That trailer looks hilarious! I'm excited for this.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#9928: Nov 5th 2020 at 4:58:51 PM

I don’t know the name of the song, but it’s the same holiday music as Home Alone. That’s already a good sign.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9929: Nov 5th 2020 at 5:00:52 PM

It's the Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies from The Nutcracker.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#9930: Nov 5th 2020 at 5:10:53 PM

[up]Thank you.

Still associate it with Home Alone.

alanh Since: May, 2010
#9931: Nov 17th 2020 at 2:51:17 PM

Happy Life Day, everyone! The LEGO Holiday Special is out.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#9932: Nov 17th 2020 at 3:25:30 PM

A classy studio would have waited for real winter holiday week

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
alanh Since: May, 2010
#9933: Nov 17th 2020 at 3:35:35 PM

Life Day isn't one of those observed-on-Monday holidays. November 17th, 1978 was when we were first introduced to Life Day, along with Itchy and Lumpy.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9934: Nov 17th 2020 at 6:03:52 PM

Despite Life Day clearly being Christmas, the original Holiday Special was released for Thanksgiving. Thus, November.

One of the strangest moments of my life was when my dad mentioned in passing that he had watched the Star Wars Holiday Special. As in, on TV, the one time it was ever officially shown.

alanh Since: May, 2010
#9935: Nov 17th 2020 at 9:01:11 PM

Hey, I'm old enough to have watched it. I was 13 at the time. Even then, I wasn't expecting a Variety Show to get into my Star Wars.

Anyway, I watched the new one and... it's okay. Quite honestly, Robot Chicken already did it.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9936: Nov 18th 2020 at 6:31:02 AM

Kids aren’t supposed to be watching Robot Chicken, is the difference.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#9937: Nov 18th 2020 at 6:35:33 AM

Also let’s be honest, merely being okay is a quantum leap over their first crack at a Holiday Special.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#9938: Nov 18th 2020 at 10:09:55 AM

It's interesting that the special makes it explicit that Finn has the Force, after TROS kept it ambiguous.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9939: Nov 18th 2020 at 10:39:52 AM

Word Of Every God Imaginable confirmed that after the movie was out though, and if you've been told about it, the only way you can't see it in the movie is if you need him to say the words "I can feel the Force" out loud.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Nov 18th 2020 at 12:40:10 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#9940: Nov 18th 2020 at 11:08:49 AM

Yes, but you'd think they would confirm it in an actual canon bit of media first before letting a LEGO parody do it instead. The vast majority of the viewing audience doesn't follow Word of God, after all.

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9941: Nov 18th 2020 at 11:16:56 AM

Is it really not confirmed though, is my point? It's already on-screen for you to see, the same way it was for Leia in Episode V. It's part of the text already.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#9942: Nov 18th 2020 at 11:41:42 AM

I don't recall him ever doing anything with the force in the film, at least not explicitly. There's a lot of vague stuff, followed by the Word of God having to come in later and say "yeah, that means he's actually strong in the force."

TROS was very much a movie that preferred to hint at but not confirm character details.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 18th 2020 at 11:49:16 AM

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#9943: Nov 18th 2020 at 11:42:44 AM

[up][up]Sorry, in Episode V? I don't really remember that.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#9944: Nov 18th 2020 at 11:51:52 AM

[up]As the group is leaving Bespin Leia senses that Luke is in trouble and makes them go back. Arguably it's just Luke reaching out with the Force but the fact that Leia senses him can be taken as a retroactive hint that she is Force sensitive.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#9945: Nov 18th 2020 at 11:52:33 AM

That wasn't really a hint or foreshadowing, though, since at the time Lucas had no intention of having Leia actually be Luke's sister (his initial plan was for the other Skywalker to be a separate character, before he composited half of his second trilogy plans into ROTJ). The intention was probably for that to be Luke's doing entirely, not Leia needing to be special for her to hear him.

So it's more of a coincidence that panned out from later retcons. Our first indication that Leia has the force is still Luke finding out about if from Yoda in ROTJ.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Nov 18th 2020 at 11:56:31 AM

Kostya (Unlucky Thirteen)
#9946: Nov 18th 2020 at 12:15:43 PM

That's why I called it a retroactive hint. It could be taken as foreshadowing but it wasn't at the time of the film coming out. It's like Uncle Owen saying he's afraid of Luke having too much of his father in him. It wasn't a purposeful hint at Vader's identity but it later became one.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#9947: Nov 18th 2020 at 12:21:37 PM

Hint isn't a very good word for it, though, because it implies intention. What it is is a later retcon that worked well with beats that were there already.

Windona Beetle Brained from At the intersection of eternity (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Beetle Brained
#9948: Nov 18th 2020 at 5:28:04 PM

Still, Return of the Jedi did have Luke explicitly tell Leia she has the Force.

I put the end of ESB thing as the same sort of happy accident as ANH Obi-Wan's hesitation.

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Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#9949: Nov 20th 2020 at 1:07:26 AM

I actually really liked this special. It was a lot of fun to watch, and the chemistry between e.g. Luke and Rey was one which I really wished they had in Last Jedi.

Also, this is the first time I saw someone mentioning Palpatine's first name in a film. Did this happen before?

BadWolf21 Since: May, 2010
#9950: Nov 20th 2020 at 5:51:08 AM

Preface: This comment made me fall down a bit of a rabbit hole.

Unless it was mentioned in one of the other Lego Star Wars movies/series, no.

But that's not terribly surprising. If we're talking solely about onscreen appearances — taking print out of the equation — then Palpatine has barely shown up in anything since his first name was revealed in late 2014. He appeared a couple times in the last few episodes of Rebels, he shows up to issue Order 66 in The Clone Wars and Jedi: Fallen Order, a recording of him triggers Operation: Cinder in Battlefront II, and I'm pretty sure it's just The Rise of Skywalker after that. Outside of canon, all there really is for non-print appearances is Lego Star Wars so again, if no one namedropped "Sheev" in any of those, it's never come up.

Very few people are on a first-name basis with the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic/Galactic Emperor in the first place. Out of universe, it took 31 years before any source gave him a first name. Even if you take the prequels into account, there's still a nine year gap between George Lucas being done with the character and any Expanded Universe author bothering to giving him a first name, and I have to assume that was intentional on their part. As far as I'm aware, not giving Palpatine a first name was not one of George's edicts about the EU. There was even a whole novel from the point of view of his Sith master and the closest we got to a name reveal was "he used to have one, but he never uses it anymore." Given that Darth Plagueis was written by the same author who only two years later would finally give him a first name in Tarkin, it was probably the case that it could no longer be avoided. The idea that you could have a whole book from the perspective of one of the Empire's most senior military officers, whose service dates back to the Clone Wars, in which he interacts directly with the Emperor, and his name would be completely avoided was probably untenable.

The weirdest thing about that is that the first four or five novels released in the new canon, which included Tarkin, were clearly written with the intent that they would be part of what would become known as Legends continuity. And probably so was Rebels, at least in the early stages. The lead time on both novels and television animation are too long for them to have been completely planned post-acquisition by Disney. A New Dawn is a Rebels prelude, Tarkin is a character study an Original Trilogy character, Heir to the Jedi is the third part of a loose trilogy whose first two parts are now part of a different continuity, and Lords of the Sith is a dive into Darth Vader's relationship with Darth Sidious. Dark Disciple is more definitely written to be canon, but only in that it is based on unproduced episodes of The Clone Wars and probably would have been released regardless of rebooting continuity. Outside of maybe the first one, none of these scream "bold new direction."

I don't know how much notice James Luceno might have had that the novel he was working on was going to be one of the first in a new continuity. But I have a feeling the answer is "not much." It might seem like Palpatine finally being given a first name was supposed to be some big "new continuity, new rules" reveal, but I think it's more likely that after three decades of the Emperor having just one name, including three movies and a TV series before he even was the Emperor, Palpatine was going to have his first name casually mentioned in a random standalone novel, and that's...kind of hilarious.


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