General Star Wars Animated Series

And a Force user destroyed the Death Star. The Force gets everyone eventually, even if it's subtle about it.

Wonder how a more insect-like or animal-like force user would fight with lightsabers.

Well Pong Krell who wasn’t insect had 4 arms & this allowed him to wield 2 double-bladed sabers.

To be fair, a proton torpedo and retconned-in internal sabotage destroyed the Death Star. The Force helped that happen by allowing the pilot to make a mathematically impossible shot, but it was still the torpedo that did the destroying.

Like. If you use Force Pull to pull the lever on the Death Star's firing mechanism, it's not the Force that destroys a planet.

If I shoot someone with a gun but did not throttle them with my bare hands, I have still killed a person.

I think it counts.

Even with the weakness Luke only made the shot because of the Force. This is like arguing a person didn't commit murder it was really the gun that fired the bullet

Edited by Kostya on Feb 10th 2020 at 6:17:12 AM

The real question is, was Luke using the Force or was the Force using Luke?

Which was the architect, and which was the tool? Who was the master, and who was the fool?

The Force is not sentient.

Luke using the Force and the Force using Luke are the same thing, but the Force does not make any kind of choice.

Are we sure of this? I feel like the franchise has always been a bit ambiguous.

The Force isn’t a being, it’s a Force. It’s energy.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Feb 10th 2020 at 6:24:21 AM

To me it's more like they could just never make up their damn minds about it.

Edited by Kaiseror on Feb 10th 2020 at 6:22:16 AM

If the Force was sentient then why in the hell did it cooperate with Sith for so long? Y'know in destroying planets and stuff

It wasn't. It was actively conspiring to destroy the Sith

Yeah, the Force being sapient is a step too far, I think. It's a very spiritual concept. It has a will, but not a cognizance. It tends towards peace, but is more an aspect of existence than a thing with its own intellect, goal and aims. It simply is.

Only really in the old EU do I remember seeing pushed the idea that the Force and Dark side have agency and capacity to interfere on their own.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 10th 2020 at 5:39:19 AM

What was that moment when someone merged with The Force & became a shining Godlike being or something?

That was Jacen Solo at the end of New Jedi Order.

What about it, though?

As in what was it?

Why or how can The Force act like that? How did Jacen even access that state?

The Force is not a living being but I feel like a lot of characters treat it as a Sentient Cosmic Force. When they talk about "The Will of the Force" it almost comes off like they're talking about some fate or destiny that the Force guides them along. Given how they talk about people joining with it I could almost see the Force as some kind of Lifestream that's a combination of all the beings that have ever died in the galaxy.

Fate and destiny are concepts that we ourselves characterize as if they were sentient. That doesn’t make the Force special somehow.

Yes but the Force is demonstrably a real thing in the universe. It's not some abstract concept.

Eh, sometimes the Force is a case of Depending on the Writer.

Also I think it's a point that the Sith don't follow the Will of the Force, they seek to impose their will on it. Jedi attempt (with varying degrees of success) to follow it since the will of the Force is harmony, balance, and all that good stuff. But it doesn't really control characters, as they can fail spiritual journeys and do stuff that isn't the will of the Force.

Also the Order 66 arc is kinda funny if you think Tup's chip failed because the Force was essentially trying to bang pots and pans to warn the Jedi.

The Jedi are gut bacteria and the Sith are tapeworms. The force is the colon.

wow this went to a weird place this BETTER not be pagetopper

So do you think that the Dark Side was always meant to be a sort of cancer in the force, or was it originally l equal and opposite to the Light Side?

I think much of the confusion regarding things like 'bringing balance to the force" and grey Jedi are the result of Star War's philosophy being a hodgepodge of christian and taoist philosophies, the problem is that those two schools of thought have several elements that clash heavily.

In Taoism dark and light are neither good or evil and a both equally necessary while Christianity say that darkness is evil and must be destroyed or suppressed. People who have a passing familiarity with the former likely assume that the force works the same way when most stories seem to indicate that it's more like the latter.

It was always supposed to be a cancer. Lucas's definition of "balance to the Force" means wiping out the Sith, because the Sith are the imbalance by definition.

Fans have applied a Balance Between Good and Evil logic to it because that's what it f*cking sounds like when you say shit like "bring balance to the Force", but that was never actually the intention.

EDIT: In fact, until recently, there was no such thing as a "Light Side". There was the Force, and then there was the Dark Side. It was, I believe, The Force Awakens that introduced the idea that there is an explicit Light Side of the Force.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 11th 2020 at 1:44:07 PM

Luke lays this out in The Last Jedi. The Force is everything. Darkness, light, and the balance between them.

My interpretation is that “the Dark Side” isn’t so much a separate part of the Force as it is an unbalanced, selfish way of using the Force. Nightsisters also use what might be called the Dark Side, but in a way that doesn’t seem to corrupt them the same way or to the same extent that it does the Sith.

Like, it is separate, in that the Force has darkness and light within it because it is the natural energy that surrounds all things, but accessing the darkness the way the Sith do is bad and inherently damaging, because it is bending the Force to your will, rather than letting the Force guide you with its own “will.”

Kyber crystals are a microcosm of the relationship the Jedi and Sith have with the Force. The Jedi bond with it and let themselves become one with it, and their crystals take on a colour specific to them (although usually blue or green). Sith exert their will on the crystals to the point that they injure them, causing them to bleed and emit red light. Same with the Force.

EDIT: The idea that Anakin brings balance to the Force by bringing the number of Jedi and Sith down to exactly two each is and always has been nonsense. First of all, way more than two Jedi survived, and there are a bunch of Dark Side adepts that are not proper Sith. Never mind that if you take just the OT as your text, there still have to be Force-sensitives in the Galaxy that were not part of either group.

And beyond the numbers aspect, the Dark Side is inherently unbalancing. Dark and Light in equal measure is not balance, because Dark is constantly attempting to swallow Light.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Feb 11th 2020 at 2:54:33 PM