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I find it sort of silly to say that you can do basically anything in 2 and make it work but in X you only have infinite overdrive because the postgame hates your ass.
So I feel obligated to ask, have you played the challenge mode of 2 ? Because that shit is right on par with X's postgame in terms of shooting yourself in the foot if you don't abuse a particularly degenarate strat. Right down to the stringest fights in the game relying on you to use hyper armor given by attacks to avoid instant death.
Fuck this, it actualy feels worse than X. When you go deep enough in the postgame of X, you can start doing some silly shit like one shot zenith cannon mastema or eternal dodge lailah queen instead of infinite overdrive. 2 felt like trimming down every single element until you keep only the one that is spamming a dark blade combo and spam chain attackd.
And there's like not really a point in comparing the postgame of one game to not that of the other.
Or maybe you're arguing we need infinite overdrive even before. To which I thoroughly disagree because that's massive overkill for anything until way after the final boss.
Edited by Yumil on Mar 12th 2019 at 11:44:03 AM
Challenge mode isn't the postgame. Postgame is all the stuff that's higher level than the final boss.
Obviously things get different when you switch to a non-standard difficulty level, and its typical for RP Gs to devolve into degeneracy on the hardest difficulty.
If you instead mean the pocket dimension area where you can do those special battles, you can still do that stuff without degenerate strategies. I did it. Well, most of it. Stuff like that fight to use Elma anywhere can fuck right off.
Edited by justinkal on Mar 12th 2019 at 5:52:07 AM
Yes, I was referring to the pocket dimension. And I'm extremely curious to learn how you beat the heropon challenge, the level 150 gogol and Elma with the variety of stuff you're talking about. and maybe the jin/malos rematch too.
I know I'm coming off as shit talking right now
But I'm legit curious at what exactly I fucked up so bad that I had to look for strats to make it, strats that feel infinitely more boring and unsatysfying that anything in X ever was.
edit : Ah. Yeah. Thought so.
Well nevermind then, I'm sticking to my point.
Edited by Yumil on Mar 12th 2019 at 11:54:15 AM
I did everything in the first batch of land of challenge fights, but skipped most of the second batch because it didn't really have any rewards and I had already mostly moved on from the game by the time it came out. Only really did the ones that were needed for affinity charts.
I remember that I beat the Heropon one, but it took a few tries.
The second Elma one can just fuck right off. That one I switched to Custom difficulty because forbidding you from reviving your allies is just not cool.
I mean that's fair, I have less than zero desire to go back to the game to finish that.
But if you're willing to pretend that 2's last batch of content doesn't matter in your analysis, then the whole infinite overdrive thing is justoverblown too because you can do everything in the game short of the superbosses with an ununpgraded ares 90. Which might not be your cup of tea to just press aghasura cannon to win, but the corolarrt also is that there's plenty of skell builds that doesn't involve infinite overdrive that can match that level.
Edited by Yumil on Mar 12th 2019 at 12:04:19 PM
Skell combat is actually the only time I ever found X's combat fun.
Its the foot based combat that I have issues with.
The other thing is that a lot of the degenerate stuff needed to beat the land of challenge stuff is based on player skill rather than setup. It takes a lot of practice to consistently pull off things like using the invincibility frames of level 4 specials to dodge enemy attacks.
All the endgame stuff in X on the other hand felt more "this is really easy and mindless if you have the right setup, but basically impossible otherwise".
Also, the reason I wasn't really taking the land of challenge stuff into account is because its DLC, not part of the base game. Its stuff added later on specifically to push the best players to their limits. I was comparing beating the hardest non-DLC content in each game (also without any of the Blades released via DLC or NG+).
Edited by justinkal on Mar 12th 2019 at 6:14:09 AM
The non-DLC post-game in 2 is a joke though. Ophion and Kurodil are nothing compared to Pharsis and Telethia.
I tend to ignore most of Challenge mode and just did the necessary missions for everyone's nodes, plus farming Noponstones. That's why I hardly ever bothered with the ones that aren't required, and just went with maximum easy mode for the necessary difficult ones. Because I find it difficult to imagine someone thinking that Elma Redux is fun in any capacity.
I mean, X had DLC too. Especially one of the most BS ground based fight of the entire game; AKA boze's last affinity mission. And I haven't heard you make an exception for that one.
Gonna really disagree with using invulnerability frames requiring skill from the player at all. I never really put any kind into effort to get it to work and never had to. And I did the instant doom challenge guy so it should work.
On the flipside, I've been doing infinite overdirve for 50 hours and even with completely optimized setup I still find myself thinking about what's going to be my next move. It's a lot more skill intensive to me to pull off, especially if you haven't optimized yoru gear yet with tp gains augs, than anything 2 ever asked me.
I also don't see the point of saying "ground based combat is nigh impossible in postgame".
Because, like, yeah.
That's the intended point of the game. That you can't take on superbosses on foot because there's jsut so much you can do with your body.
Skells are not intended to be an alternate playstyle, they're supposed to be stragiht powerup.
If anything it's infinite overdrive and other ground builds that break that theme of the game. Not the fact that you're not supposed to try in the first place.
Edited by Yumil on Mar 12th 2019 at 12:25:44 PM
My opinion might be a bit biased, because the build I used in X was one that wasn't capable of doing Infinite Overdrive at all until you've got a setup that might as well be optimized in terms of augments. The Knife + Raygun build. I used that all the way through the postgame.
There are NPCs that state it's possible for you to become more powerful on foot than in a Skell, so that was definitely intentional.
Challenge Mode probably puts 2's post-game above X thanks to a much larger variety of challenges instead of just a dozen super-bosses, only a few of which have noticeable gimmicks. Plus 2 allows you to have actual party composition vs X's grinding being too much to bother with anything but solo.
Edited by Sterok on Mar 12th 2019 at 4:25:44 AM
I'll agree that team comp is better in 2 than X but that's largley an unfixable design result of having your character being a character from final fantasy V dropped in final fantasy IV (or any FF with a strict role repartition for characters).
I'm curious about the NP Cs that state that though, I don't remember seeing those.
Edited by Yumil on Mar 12th 2019 at 12:27:47 PM
Wait, what? At the very highest level optimized Skells are less amazing than optimized Overdrives.
With the sole possible exception of one-shot capable superweapons.
I think it was Walter (the person who keeps turning Mia away from BLADE) who mentioned it in the early chapters.
And now I'm thinking about difficulty settings in X similar to what 2 had. Make the main story super easy, or make Gradivus take literally forever.
Yes, and my point was that it was an oversight because it was silly for mechas to be weaker than a single man on foot and it was a result of Gameplay and Story Segregation because they didn't thought gorund combat could become this strong.
But apparently it's not an oversight, it's a feature. Didn't know that.
Edited by Yumil on Mar 12th 2019 at 12:34:16 PM
Trying to decide on which guns I want to go along with my Photon Sabers. Don't want to use Dual Guns if I can help it. Gatling Guns seem like they have decent TP generation, but I've never really used them, so I'm not sure.
I once tried Sniper Rifles with Photon Sabers.
Is T-elos still a New Game+ summon in XB 2? Or did they change something in the last year? I'm seeing someone on Facebook saying he got T-elos from the first playthrough.
You can get her on a first playthrough if you load a clear file. So you do have to finish the game first, but it doesn't have to be a new game plus.
Edited by SapphireBlue on Mar 16th 2019 at 8:03:29 AM
Yeah that's what I thought.
Speaking of, I really need to go back to the base game and grind up to get KOS-MOS before this Friday. I'll finally have a TV again for about a week and I want to finally run through NG+ when I can do it properly.
Only problem is that I'm still going through Torna and I have no idea how far I am in that. I'm about to reach Torna's capital for the first time.
Indeed, I actually got her as my fifth or so blade on my latest run even though it was a pure new game. Crazy how that works.
If you've reached Auresco, that means you're more or less halfway through the game, if you count doing the sidequests for the community requirement as time. Word of advice, go straight to the messenger before you reach Community Level 2; if you do what I did on my latest run, you'll automatically get forced into combat mode, and it's one hell of a fight.
What do you mean by "straight to the messenger"? Do you mean to just continue the story up to a certain point?
Yeah. When you do, it'll trigger a prompt that will ask you to reach Community Level 2, which is possible to do before doing that. The trigger to prompt the next part in the story, which is an attack on the city with Malos at the forefront will take place in the courtyard, so if you want to level up via quests, you'll want to get to the meeting sooner than later.
I mean, I'm pretty sure I only have two side quests left that are both available and completable but I'll be sure to do that just in case.
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