TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The 2012 US presdential election

Go To

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#151: Mar 31st 2011 at 10:34:27 AM

tnu: just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's illegal. Not everyone agrees with your interpretation of the Constitution. If it was blatantly illegal, then it would be struck down by the Supreme Court. That's why they exist.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#152: Mar 31st 2011 at 10:38:33 AM

Pleas forgive me on this one but the FDA, FCC,DOE ando ther such orginizations have no constitutional authority to exist there is nothing in the constitution that allows the federal government to establish and manage them to my knowledge. Also keep in mind I just got backfrom and MRI and still kind of sedated.

Oh yes and I forgot the obvious IRS and Federal Reserve.

edited 31st Mar '11 10:39:04 AM by tnu1138

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#153: Mar 31st 2011 at 10:55:37 AM

Weren't most of those things established by Congress? Y'know, passing laws? Which isn't then the duty of the executive branch to enact? How is that illegal?

edited 31st Mar '11 10:57:08 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#154: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:01:44 AM

Ok let's start witht he Federal Reserve the constitution clearly states that only gold and silver can be used as legal tender. The US Government has completley ignored that and given the Federal Reserve a private corperation the power to print and distribute money.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#155: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:02:09 AM

What's wrong with the DOE? I rather like their secret squirrely ways.

Heard a lot of stories on the grapevine about shit they do at some of our bases, gives me the chills to know an organization I thought was totally harmless and benign actually does some really out there shit. Might just be gribblies from tall tales from soldiers though. tongue

^

Our economy would have totally collapsed if we had stuck with the gold standard. And there really is no going back to it now in the first place.

Look dude, I love the founding fathers, but nobody can write a document and expect it to stay 100 percent relevant centuries down the line. There's lots of things in the constitution that aren't as relevant today, or have some serious conflicts with things that hadn't even existed yet at the time that it was written.

edited 31st Mar '11 11:04:02 AM by Barkey

tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#156: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:05:32 AM

really? can you prove that? Can you have any proof that a private government backed corperation printing worthless paper and maintaning an inflationary debt based monetary system is helpign any?

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#157: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:06:57 AM

I never said it was helping, just that it's better than the alternative, which is that our economy would have crumbled many decades ago under the strain, and at the minimum we wouldn't be even close to the powerhouse that we are today.

Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#158: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:11:38 AM

Just came back from the new Whig party homepage; not bad.

Linhasxoc Since: Jun, 2009
#159: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:17:30 AM

Well, I'm not so sure about the DOE, but it doesn't take any stretch of the mind to imagine the FDA and FCC as covered under the interstate commerce clause. Well, maybe the FCC takes a bit of a stretch.

Linhasxoc Since: Jun, 2009
#160: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:21:32 AM

Oh, and tnu, you're wrong about the gold and silver thing.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
Note that the prohibition is specifically says states. It doesn't say anything about Congress. You could make an argument that it applies to Congress, but it's certainly not a clear-cut matter.

tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#161: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:22:44 AM

No you are latching on to the word "regulate" as if it means to restrict or prohibit. at the time that the interstate commerce clause was ratified regulated meant "to make regular" so the federal government has no authority to redstrict commerce only to make it regular.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#162: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:27:47 AM

No State. Says nothing about Federal powers over such things.

And I think the entire point of that is to keep different states from having different types of currency, which is a good thing.

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#163: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:30:22 AM

^ And was a problem prior to 1789 under just the Articles of Confederation. In 1788 there were literally a dozen different currencies in use in the US all of them legal.

tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#164: Mar 31st 2011 at 11:30:28 AM

I'm in agreement there I understand the commerce clause in that respect but while the federal government is the only one who has the power to coin money it can not delegate that power to another organization.

edited 31st Mar '11 12:38:17 PM by tnu1138

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#167: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:05:04 PM

ask The Fed.

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#168: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:05:45 PM

I think he's considering the Federal Reserve not part of the federal government. He's saying the Federal Reserve is bad because it's unconstitutional, because only the federal government has the power to mint currency.

How that makes any damn sense I couldn't tell you, but I think that's what he's getting at.

edited 31st Mar '11 12:06:32 PM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#169: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:07:53 PM

Precisely the Federal Reserve is a private independent government backed bank. It's as much a part of the government as Federal Express.

edited 31st Mar '11 12:35:40 PM by tnu1138

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#170: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:11:53 PM

Fed Ex has no ties to the US government whatsoever.

tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#171: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:12:46 PM

This is my point. The Federal Reserve is about as legitimate to the government as Fed Ex.

edited 31st Mar '11 12:33:13 PM by tnu1138

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#172: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:28:11 PM

The Federal Reserve has legal power to set interest rates and hold legal sway over the lending industry. Fed Ex has nothing of power legally over package delivery.

The Federal Reserve has this power backed up by Congressional charter written in 1913.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#173: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:31:15 PM

[up]Which he believes is illegal, because he apparently considers the Fed to not be part of the federal government.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
tnu1138 Dracula Since: Apr, 2009
Dracula
#174: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:31:35 PM

Ah yes the year everyting went to hell. The problem is and correct me if i'm wrong as I hold great respect for you Major Tom. is that it violates the idea of non-delegation of powers. The Federal Reserve as far as i'm aware isn't officially a part of any branches.

edited 31st Mar '11 12:34:26 PM by tnu1138

We must survive, all of us. The blood of a human for me, a cooked bird for you. Where is the difference?
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#175: Mar 31st 2011 at 12:59:16 PM

It's part of the legislative branch of government. Both the Board of Governors and the Federal Open Market Committee are directly answerable to Congress.


Total posts: 465
Top